Ask me anything about my experience as a trans man who wholeheartedly defends women’s rights

[13J]

I really didn’t know how to title this.
But I’ve replied to a couple of posts over the last few days regarding trans people and the SC ruling.

For those who haven’t seen my previous posts.

i’m in my mid 30s.
i transitioned at 18, started testosterone at 20 and had full top and bottom surgery at 25. I also hold a GRC. I am told I pass extremely well, and most people are quite surprised if they learn I’m trans after having known me a while.

HOWEVER,
As much as I believe that everyone’s right are important, I do not believe eradicating women’s rights in the name of trans rights is okay.

i do not believe single sex spaces should be invaded by the opposite sex, and that people should be made to feel uncomfortable in their safe spaces.

I KNOW you cannot change your sex. I know I have not changed my biological sex.

i know I have a surgically altered female body, not a male one.

i have been rejected by most trans people and in most trans inclusive spaces for disagreeing with the loud minority on these points.

I’ve been called transphobic on many occasions because of it,

And as I have become older, I have come to a deeper understanding that gender is nothing more than a social concept, and while I am happy in my life and the choices I made.
i am not sure I would make the same ones again if I knew then what I know now.

So I just wanted to open this post up and say if anyone would like to know anything further about what I’ve experienced or my personal beliefs. Then feel free to ask, I will answer as openly and honestly as possible and no topic is off limits.

i am speaking only for myself, not for other trans people, but I suspect that many of them feel this way, they are just afraid to voice it because of the backlash they’d receive.

What’s your opinion of men as someone who was once female? I used to think there wasn’t much difference personally wise between men and women but now that I’m older i sometimes think they are a different species - not in a negative way, but in that blokes should spend time hanging out with just blokes sometimes talking about bloke stuff. Similarly I enjoy hanging out with just my female friends

@spannasaurus
No, I’m 5’ 8”
As la my husband who was born male. Of all of the men I know, a few are taller than me, but not massively so, and some are shorter.

@postmanshere
i have a fairly equal friendship group in terms of men and women. I keep a very tight circle tho, and yes, they all know.

How do you feel about the language people sometimes use regarding gender-affirming surgery, calling medical transition "mutilation" or, as seen earlier in this thread, "[destroying] your natural body?"

(Personally I find it uncomfortable, as I don't see my own (gender-affirming) mastectomy as destruction, and it has also upset my mother (who has had a mastectomy for cancer) to see similar bodies to her own described as mutilated. But I am only one person, and I'm intrigued to see how other trans people feel about this language)

@WeeBisom
i do feel transmen are overlooked a lot, because they are typically less of a physical risk.
Although they can be very vulnerable, the issue is most trans men wouldn’t tell you they feel vulnerable because they think that to be male you can’t show any vulnerability.

It is difficult. Because trans men do get pregnant and need appropriate care, but still want to be treated as a man, and how do you treat a pregnant man when men can’t get pregnant?

Similarly with prisons.
if you put a pre op trans women in a women’s prison, they pose a risk to women, even after surgery many women still wouldn’t feel comfortable

But in a male prison, the trans women becomes vulnerable to being raped by men because they’re trans. So short of building trans prisons I don’t know the solution,

But a trans man, pre op is at risk in a man’s prison, and post op is still likely at risk.

They would be better accepted in a women’s prison but they’d feel uncomfortable
And if they were post op, or looked very masculine, women may still feel at risk and uncomfortable

The ruling hasn’t worried me personally in regard to toilets etc because I don’t use them if I can help it and am unlikely to be challenged for using the men’s.

legally the ruling means I can use the women’s, but despite the people who say they can tell. In my case, I think if I walked in to the ladies there would be issues and if I said I was a trans man it would probably be assumed I was a man trying to make a point.

So I wouldn’t do it
i do worry about being placed on a female hospital ward because neither I, nor the women on the ward will feel at all comfortable with that.

Were the long term consequences of cross sex hormones explain to you and are you worried about them at all?

@Nightmare2022
i believe they feel uncomfortable in the world, probably because the world is uncomfortable for ND people and particularly girls given that’s diagnosis is more complicated and often overlooked.

And the media/internet is feeding them a solution for the discomfort. Or they’re making friends, which is harder for ND people, and then the friends are trans or NB etc so they’re trying to fit in.

Tbere has always been trans people
but I don’t see any other explanation for why there’s suddenly so many

@PooksBear

i suppose I’m technically bisexual. And always was.

i was attracted to the women I dated, and attracted to men but choosing not to date them

Now I’m more comfortable with my body I have dated men and subsequently married a gay man.

I am still attracted to women, but I’m not dating them because I’m married.

I guess I just love who I love and I only assign the labels to myself that society expects of me.

So are you saying that you did not transition because you felt that deep down you were a man, but because of childhood experiences that led you to believe that you had to conform to female stereotypes that you did not like?

Those are pretty drastic actions when things might have been solved by, when you became an adult, dressing as a man and pursuing those stereotypical male activities that you wished.

This is what worries me about it all. If society were simply more tolerant of people choosing their lifestyles as they wished, a lot of pain might be avoided.

@ginasevern

I a legally male and married to a man. So I’m considered gay.
My husband is biologically male, has never been attracted to women but views me as male and is attracted to my surgically altered body which looks more male that female although it doesn’t look ‘naturally’ male.

But I wouldn’t say I’m following my natural sexual orientation because I don’t believe there is such a thing.

Again, as with gender, it is society that assumes we will be attracted to the opposite sex, unless we ‘come out’ and say otherwise.

Sexuality is difficult for many, and in my experience moreso for trans people
Because if I had said I was a trans man, and married to a woman

It wouldn’t have confused anyone.

It is difficult. Because trans men do get pregnant and need appropriate care, but still want to be treated as a man, and how do you treat a pregnant man when men can’t get pregnant?

How is anyone 'treated as a man', what does that mean?

if you put a pre op trans women in a women’s prison, they pose a risk to women, even after surgery many women still wouldn’t feel comfortable
But in a male prison, the trans women becomes vulnerable to being raped by men because they’re trans. So short of building trans prisons I don’t know the solution,

Scottish prison male population: 8,000. Female population: around 300.

The male estate is not really comparable to the female estate.

There is a separate wing in Edinburgh for 'transwomen', most of whom are sex offenders.

OP it's a shame more people like you can't speak up. The debate has been overtaken for too long by extremists. Sensible, compassionate conversations is what we need. Thank you for sharing

@bigboykitty

My dad left when I was 10, and we had minimal contact. We are in touch now and he is accepting of my life, Although he has quite old fashioned views of gender. He accepts I’m male, And will talk to me about things he considers masculine like football, but wouldn’t do the same with my sister. I do challenge him but he’s unlikely to change.

The rest of my own family were not accepting or supportive of my choices in life so I don’t speak to any of them.

My granny was incredibly supportive of everything I did in life and especially for her age, very accepting but sadly she passed away 2 years ago, which has been very tough.

My husband is very supportive in life and we mostly have a good life together although of course, he isn’t perfect. His family is also wonderful and I have a great relationship with my mother in law, brothers and sisters in law and all of their children.

Froebd wise, my best friend has been in my life for 18 years and met me just after I began my transition, and she is an I crdibme support.

My other friends are a bit of a mixture of people I just picked up along the way. From working or studying, and a couple of failed dates that went on to be amazing friends.

Don’t get me wrong there’s been a lot of rejection, and that’s been hard, but I take the view that I wouldn’t want someone like that in my life anyway.

@ArabellaScott
i don’t currently.
i have had some trans friends in the past but as I said in my OP most of them lost their minds over JK Rowling and haven’t spoken to me since because I disagree that she has ‘invalidated their entire identity’.

I’m sure others like me exist but I haven’t a clue how to find them.

Dude are you in London you mught feel more comfortable in the working class or ethnic minority communities LTBG. In my experience they lean towards your view and when they don't they don't care that you do. IT REALLY supr8sed me how much social class has driven they community to diffrent concepts of self. Also Lesbian support groups who are trans inclusive might be right up your street. You have got to live live live!!!!

@SolielMoonSky

Thats actually a very interesting question.

Throighout my childhood I had a mental image of how I wanted to look.

Shaved head, or spiked hair, baggy T-shirts, hoodies, baggy jeans, in essence I suppose the surfer/skater look of the early 2000s.

And my appearance hasn’t really changed, to me that’s who I am. I’ve tried different styles but always revert back. I’m not sure if it’s related my my gender identity or not tho.

My dad left when I was ten and at the time he had long hair and I couldn’t tell you what he wore.

When we met up 20 years later, we look identical, in the face, shaved heads but also clothing, even down to the brands, then when I visited his house I discovered a lot of our furniture is the same!

So that’s bizarre.

i wouldn’t say I’d be upset if I didn’t feel I looked right but I would be a bit uncomfortable and I definitely feel better when I do get it right.

I didn’t do much to my appearance de for a long time besides haircuts because beauty felt like such an inherently female thing to care about

But as I’ve aged I’ve become more comfortable and do spend a little more time on how I look. I will for example get my eyebrows waxed. Which some people think is weird.

Yesterday, I took my son to the opticians. He's a diminuitive 12 year old so was in between sizes for frames. He liked a pair of purple ones whoh fitted, but was steered away from them to some combat coloured ones.

They were glasses! But under "frames for her" rather than "frames for him". The assistant was very insistent that, "That frame's pupular with women, so he'll feel embarrassed if he sees women wearing them.".

He picked the combat ones, and is happy. But if he'd have wanted the purple ones, I wonder how long the store assistant would have insisted that they were "women's glasses?" They're just plastic shapes!

I mention it because OP said about the Cecelia Aherne book. I have a pile of books about the Manhattan Project and nuclear science beside my bed...

It's stereotypes that should be erased, not people being made to feel they have to "pick a side" (not saying this was in your case, OP. I was dissuaded from Physics A Level because it was a boy's subject. If I had been younger, and this had been a more recent comment to me, I may well have said, "OK then, A Level Physics, here I come!" I also had to give up my friends when I was 13, because they were boys.)

@Happyinarcon

Men and women are very different
The way they treat others and each other is vastly different, and I’ve been able to experience that from both sides.

To use a steriotype, I’ve been one of the women in the kitchen at parties, and I’ve been one of the men standing around the BBQ and often it does feel like there is zero overlap.

But what I’ve learnt is that both men and women, but mostly men in my experience aren’t showing you themselves, they’ll show you what they think you expect. What they think is acceptable.

Additionally, women will talk to a gay man in a way they wouldn’t to a straight man and men will be more guarded around a gay man.

it all comes down to the perception of threat.

I think if society didn’t have such rigid gender stereotypes, if little boys were taught it’s okay to cry and little girls were allowed to play in the dirt
Tbe world would be very different.

Peer pressure also adds a lot to it all. A teenage girl is a slut if she’s having sex, but a teenage boy will often lie and says he’s doing it with multiple partners even when he’s a virgin, because he’ll be laughed at otherwise.

Of course I am generalising and I know not everyone is taught that, but you get what I’m saying hopefully.

@nbartist

i respect that that’s how they view it, but I disagree too.

i appreciate that it’s very difficult for a women who is comfortable with her breasts, and then has to have a mastectomy on medical grounds to understand why someone would voluntarily go through it.

But then, people who aren’t bothered about breast size or lip size or wrinkles don’t understand why anyone has breast enlargement, lip fillers or Botox either.

Some people would also call that mutilation. I think it’s just a personal perception. I will happy talk about my experience and why I did what I did, or why I didn’t do something.
And it’s fine if others disagree.

Thank you so much for posting @13J ❤️
Your thoughtful and reasoned perspective is so helpful to hear. I am mum to a fabulous AuDHD teen who is questioning their gender (born female). I’ll be bookmarking this thread for them to read at an appropriate time.
I worry so much for them, wanting to support them through tough school experiences and towards appropriate decisions for their life going forward. This is the first balanced ‘conversation’ I’ve heard and the relief of hearing your measured opinion has really impacted. Thank you so much x

@JamesWebbSpaceTelescope
Not really no, they weren’t.
it was explained to me that without a hysterectomy there could be issues, but I had a hysterectomy.

i can’t say I’m particularly concerned, but then as it possibly wasn’t explained fully, perhaps I’m unaware of what should be concerning me?

I just wanted to say thank you for contributing to the discussion.

@Mischance
Honestly I don’t know.

i did feel deep down that I was a man. And I feel secure in that identity now.

I just also know that there were a lot of other issues going on and there was a lot of stereotypes I was expected to conform to.

i will never know if I would’ve still felt this way if I had lived in a happier and more open environment.

Wnat does a man feel like? Or a woman? It’s individual to everyone, and hard to define without bringing stereotypes in to it.

Bur I do feel that there are people who would be happy to remain their birth sex if they had more freedom of expression, whether I was one of them, I will never know

Thanks for sharing your story. It's a perspective we so rarely hear.

Is your husband trans as well? Or does he see you entirely as male?

In the TWAW TMAM arguments, I always wonder how denying your past is helpful to those who are confused. I always feel the journey is an important part of what makes you you and pretending that you are just magically the opposite sex isn't helpful.

Are you open with those in your life? I don't mean every person you ever interact with but those important to you?

If you are attracted to men that makes you straight surely?

Have you been on mumsnet long and have you followed the debate here?