Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please hold my hand. My daughter has drunk the koolaid, and I’m more upset & angry than I think I have ever been. (SC ruling)

285 replies

MarvellousMonsters · 19/04/2025 13:08

This will be long, so I apologise in advance. I find myself in a grey area between radfems and woke-maidens. I don’t hate trans people, I don’t hate anyone, although as a woman in my 50s I’ve had enough male fuckwittery in my life to have a very low opinion of men in general. I do believe that there are some people with such intense dysphoria that counselling and support are not enough and surgical transition is their best solution, but I don’t believe anyone can change sex, or is born in the wrong body.

That said, I detest gender stereotypes and the confusion of sex & gender, I’m the generation of women that fought really hard on a day to day level to reject these stupid made up rules about what girls can and can’t do/wear/think, and seeing the ‘men in a dress’ become accepted as that meaning they are women is a huge step backwards, and it makes me furious.

I honestly don’t care who wears what, if a man wants to wear dresses and make up, that’s fine. I’ve spent the last 15-20 years in t-shirts and jeans, no make up etc, so I don’t see why men can’t wear skirts if they want to. As Eddie Izzard used to say, they aren’t women’s clothes, they are my clothes. (So disappointed that Eddie has now claimed to be Suzie)

I am not a dress.

I genuinely don’t care about sharing spaces like toilets, it’s possible to create safe unisex toilets, the focus on this is a distraction and needs to stop. But when men claim to identify as women and skew crime statistics, that bothers me. Men who claim to identify as women and try to insist that lesbians should date them, that’s controlling and gross. Hospital wards and bays are segregated for a reason, and demanding we use she/her pronouns doesn’t mean a man should be put in a bed in a women’s bay. Same with any communal changing area, be it the gym or a shop fitting room. Women don’t have a penis, it’s really that simple.

This morning the SC ruling was mentioned briefly and my adult daughter is furious with it. She claims it’s a step backwards, that it will cause hate crimes and violence towards trans people, that anyone who supports it is a hateful bigot and wishes harm on a vulnerable minority. I tried to calmly explain to her that no laws have been changed, only clarified, and that trans people haven’t lost any rights, nor will any MtF prisoners be immediately transferred to male prisons to be raped and murdered by the other prisoners. Women aren’t going to be randomly strip-searched by male police officers who will claim they thought it was a man, etc. She just refuses to believe that women’s safe spaces need to be just for actual biological women, because she believes trans women don’t pose a threat, and even when I explained that most trans identifying MtF don’t have surgery etc and are still fully functioning males, and showed her examples of MtF assaulting women, she won’t accept that the actions of these men mean that we should be able to hold safe spaces based on biology. I tried to explain that I understand that trans people are vulnerable to hate crimes etc, and that we need to take steps to keep them safe, but not at the expense of women. We’ve had a long and very heated argument where she has accused me of being a bigot and a bunch of other incredibly hurtful things, mostly by refusing to accept that there is a toxic sub-set of (mostly MtF) TRAs that are actually autogynephiles/INCELs with misogyny at their core, and that these people threaten actual physical harm to anyone (like JKR) who dares to question their claims of womanhood.

Help me. Help me find a way to reach her. She’s an intelligent educated young woman who has been raised with feminist values, I have modelled non-stereotypical behaviours and given her complete freedom to choose her direction in life, with no expectations or limitations based on her sex. I’m genuinely appalled to hear this garbage coming from her.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Bookery · 22/04/2025 18:04

Grammarnut · 21/04/2025 10:54

She may be thinking of his EO re transwomen in women's spaces (good thing) and protectionism. Absolute free trade is damaging to a country's growing industries in some cases, for example, tariffs are used to protect them. Trump is a business man when all is said and done - he probably knows the effects of absolute free trade (and we can look round the UK at soaring energy prices compared to e.g. France where energy companies are state owned).

Edited

This thread is not about Trump's tariff policies, but:

Tariff wars don't work in the modern world.

The "Gilded Age" he keeps mentioning is not coming back.

His fixation on waging a tariff war began in his first term. How did that turn out? Did it actually benefit US consumers as he claimed? It didn't.

Trump is not a competent businessman either, but could be a good case study for those interested in business ethics (his businesses were involved in more than four thousand lawsuits, especially for fraud and other illegal financial practices).

https://fortune.com/2025/03/16/trump-tariffs-how-they-work-economy-recession-predictions/

If paywalled:
https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=fortune.com/2025/03/16/trump-tariffs-how-they-work-economy-recession-predictions/

https://thehill.com/business/5121142-wall-street-journal-slams-trumps-tariff-plans-the-dumbest-trade-war-in-history/

Trump claims tariffs will make the U.S. 'rich again.' But 5 undisputed facts about how they work throw cold water on that notion

A deep analysis of how tariffs work bodes poorly for U.S. economic growth.

https://fortune.com/2025/03/16/trump-tariffs-how-they-work-economy-recession-predictions/

Bookery · 22/04/2025 18:29

Grammarnut · 21/04/2025 11:40

I'm curious what history curriculum can include discussion of Trump as a fascist (he's not). Presumably WWII?

Edited

According to Merriam-Webster, fascism is:

  1. often Fascism : a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition

broadly : a philosophy or system with some combination of fascist values and governing structures

  1. a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

—often used informally in an exaggerated way

"During his first six weeks in office, President Donald Trump has embarked on a dizzying teardown of the federal government and attacks on long-standing institutions in an attempt to increase his own authority.
He has pardoned those who attacked the U.S. Capitol to overturn his 2020 election loss, placed loyalists atop the FBI and military, and purged the Department of Justice, which dropped investigations against Trump allies. He declared control over independent agencies such as the Federal Election Commission, punished media outlets for coverage he dislikes and his allies suggested he could defy court orders."

https://apnews.com/article/trump-democracy-autocrats-authoritarian-constitution-threat-542ac437a58880e81c052f8f2df1643f

This article was written in March and the constitutional crisis in the US is showing no signs of stopping.

Trump is now defying court orders, including those issued by the US Supreme Court (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5256539-trump-administration-challenging-judiciary/). He has already reached a point that even centrist/right-leaning media outlets can't defend his actions.

He is silencing any possible attempts at opposition by threatening universities, law firms, and judges, and state governments that he believes are likely to stand up to him in any way.

He has a frightening lack of regard for checks and balances that underpin the US democracy.

He has suggested serving a third term despite being forbidden by the US Constitution to do so, and also suggested deporting Americans (US citizens) to a foreign country.

And these points are all just the tip of the iceberg.

He has unequivocally shown that he is autocratic. At what point would describing him as "fascist" be not an overreach?

Definition of AUTOCRATIC

of, relating to, or being an autocracy : absolute; characteristic of or resembling an autocrat : despotic… See the full definition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/autocratic

Bookery · 22/04/2025 19:10

Bookery · 22/04/2025 18:29

According to Merriam-Webster, fascism is:

  1. often Fascism : a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition

broadly : a philosophy or system with some combination of fascist values and governing structures

  1. a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

—often used informally in an exaggerated way

"During his first six weeks in office, President Donald Trump has embarked on a dizzying teardown of the federal government and attacks on long-standing institutions in an attempt to increase his own authority.
He has pardoned those who attacked the U.S. Capitol to overturn his 2020 election loss, placed loyalists atop the FBI and military, and purged the Department of Justice, which dropped investigations against Trump allies. He declared control over independent agencies such as the Federal Election Commission, punished media outlets for coverage he dislikes and his allies suggested he could defy court orders."

https://apnews.com/article/trump-democracy-autocrats-authoritarian-constitution-threat-542ac437a58880e81c052f8f2df1643f

This article was written in March and the constitutional crisis in the US is showing no signs of stopping.

Trump is now defying court orders, including those issued by the US Supreme Court (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5256539-trump-administration-challenging-judiciary/). He has already reached a point that even centrist/right-leaning media outlets can't defend his actions.

He is silencing any possible attempts at opposition by threatening universities, law firms, and judges, and state governments that he believes are likely to stand up to him in any way.

He has a frightening lack of regard for checks and balances that underpin the US democracy.

He has suggested serving a third term despite being forbidden by the US Constitution to do so, and also suggested deporting Americans (US citizens) to a foreign country.

And these points are all just the tip of the iceberg.

He has unequivocally shown that he is autocratic. At what point would describing him as "fascist" be not an overreach?

Edited

To be clear, my use of "autocratic" is in line with the definition of the word by the Cambridge Dictionary: "demanding that people obey completely, without asking or caring about anyone else's opinions", which is what he is doing.

IBelieveinSomething · 22/04/2025 23:15

Pigeon31 · 22/04/2025 16:32

On the other hand, I am a liberal.

There are plenty of views that I either disagree with or think are basically baseless but they're not invalid. People may believe things I disagree with (like you for example) but neither you nor I are the thought police. And I don't want to live in a country where anyone tries to control beliefs. If the acts they lead to are harmful then those can be restricted by law but again, if the law causes more harm than help then it can be changed.

All through history, autocrats have tried to control what people think and all through history, they have failed. You calling my beliefs invalid is pointless at best, and thought policing at worst.

But I tell you this -- whenever you walk out of your front door you may encounter people with beliefs you find odd or offensive, or who do things you dislike or find repugnant ... You can just let them be.

Edited

i am a liberal by nature. But I disagree with you.

IBelieveinSomething · 22/04/2025 23:20

All of us just let them be. Because we are inured to it. We are female. Let males take over everything then. Agree to it. Let them be. I disagree.

Grammarnut · 22/04/2025 23:51

Bookery · 22/04/2025 18:04

This thread is not about Trump's tariff policies, but:

Tariff wars don't work in the modern world.

The "Gilded Age" he keeps mentioning is not coming back.

His fixation on waging a tariff war began in his first term. How did that turn out? Did it actually benefit US consumers as he claimed? It didn't.

Trump is not a competent businessman either, but could be a good case study for those interested in business ethics (his businesses were involved in more than four thousand lawsuits, especially for fraud and other illegal financial practices).

https://fortune.com/2025/03/16/trump-tariffs-how-they-work-economy-recession-predictions/

If paywalled:
https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=fortune.com/2025/03/16/trump-tariffs-how-they-work-economy-recession-predictions/

https://thehill.com/business/5121142-wall-street-journal-slams-trumps-tariff-plans-the-dumbest-trade-war-in-history/

Well, I didn't say he was. I was suggesting reasons why some people might agree with him. I am not absolute believer in free trade or liberalisation, both of which have damaged UK infrastructure.
Free trade is lovely when you are the country benefitting from it. Not so much fun if the EU is leaning on you to liberalise your infrastructure (privatise it) or is dumping produce on you, so that your own farmers cannot compete with prices and cease any sort of trading.
Like anything else, trade has to be regulated.

Grammarnut · 23/04/2025 00:00

@Bookery, the UK definition is as follows (I am British):
a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed.
Trump does not fit that definition. He does not appear to believe in state control, but in unfettered capitalism with protectionism bolted on. He may disparage the Opposition but he shows no sign of attempting to ban it.
(Cambridge dictionary)

MarvellousMonsters · 23/04/2025 18:03

Sorry, I’ve not run away, I’m struggling to catch up on all replies.

also, WTF has Trump and his tariffs got to do with any of this?

OP posts:
TangenitalContrivance · 23/04/2025 18:08

MarvellousMonsters · 23/04/2025 18:03

Sorry, I’ve not run away, I’m struggling to catch up on all replies.

also, WTF has Trump and his tariffs got to do with any of this?

Here with baited breath :)

genuinely hope those practical tips on how to actually change someone’s mind help you. I’m sure they will!

NoIAmTheNewQueenofMN · 23/04/2025 23:48

MarvellousMonsters · 23/04/2025 18:03

Sorry, I’ve not run away, I’m struggling to catch up on all replies.

also, WTF has Trump and his tariffs got to do with any of this?

Some people on this thread equate gender critical views with fascism. And for them, fascism = Trump. 🙄

New posts on this thread. Refresh page