Is “I welcome the SC judgment but”

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

The new “I’m as GC as they come but”?

sooooo much of this around at the moment

Ouch, I am a 'woman of a certain age (50+)'.

In other words, I grew up in a time of quite extensive sex discrimination and seen equality gradually improve and being hard won. Therefore am pretty protective of them and won't just give them away to men who want them and have no appreciation of the effort it took to get them.

I do feel somewhat sorry for the young people whose situation has changed as a result of the ruling, and change can often be hard. But we do adapt and new norms can be established, the quicker they move on, the better.

I really hope the TRAs move on to campaigning for their own rights, more akin to LGB rights, rather than trying to merge with women's rights. Whatever we think about people identifying as trans, I think there would be few objections to trans people having their own rights to not be discriminated against.

all those pictures of (a frankly incredibly sexy) Marc Bolan with a feather boa, eyeliner and glitter all over his face, or Bowie in a dress, or whatever Steve Harley was up to.

Then the new romantics (David Sylvian - beautiful) etc etc.

And none saying they were women, and most not gay. But the example: Boy George, pansexual, i think possibly, and violent. Go figure.

Why do we , as women, not get to enjoy one small thing that helps cement the single sex space that until recently we took for granted ? Why do we also have to feel sad for the men who want to use that space ?
I can’t think of a male equivalent, but where for instance women have won rights over their reproductive health, even though there are obviously people who disagree with this , there is no “oh why don’t you also feel sad for all the people who think this is a bad thing and would like to stop a 14 year old getting an abortion” it’s shocking to me how this gender movement which is so sexist and regressive, so clearly bad for women and girls, became twisted into a “liberal” badge of honour .

Who can tell me what rights trans have lost? The right to use womens spaces was not theirs in the first place as they are men so again what rights have they lost!

Yes. My older dd has commented often on how my group of teenage friends were so much more unconventional and individual than her peers. They are all so afraid of sticking out in appearance as well as in terms of ideas and opinions, it’s not a good thing.

Can someone who knows the link post the evidence of male offending not reducing for male transitioners? It in fact becomes more dangerous to women and children.

I need to save the link and post it every time I see the argument trans women are now at more risk. we need to be responding with facts not getting sucked into the emotional tactics. And the more we respond with facts to these arguments the more people will see the actual need for the clarification of biological sex and not be sucked in like such emotional posters want

I also think I remember reading stats that the perpetrators to violence against trans individuals are often trans individuals. I definitely read that about murders but perhaps it’s not all violence.

there are also stats showing a large number of trans individuals subjected to violence are in sex work. Biological women in sex work suffer the same violence. It’s due to the work not being trans.

All of this.

They followed Stonewall law, and not the ACTUAL law. Stonewall law told them they didn't need to do any fucking work like women had to for years. Nope, they could just waltz in and TAKE what women had.

Think of all they could have achieved, all the safe spaces they could have created, the funds they could have raised to do so. Instead of fighting women at every turn, they could have had women championing their cause, helping them out, working together. What a waste.

But they were sold a lie. And then along came the AGPs and incels, like flies round shit, absolutely thrilled about getting unfettered access to women and girls. They weren't going to campaign for safe spaces were they!

And the completely deluded, who couldn't care less about safety, they just needed women as their validation props and got very angry if a woman told them no.

And the cheats, oh so happy they could go from mediocre male athlete who won fuck all, to celebrated champions. But they needed women to beat, hence why when there was a trans inclusive swim event once, entries there were none.

It's just been one fuck up after another. And now on and on they bleat about dysphoria and "safety". Those mean horrible women, they're being very unkind, don't they care??

Well if it's actually about safety, they need to pull their fingers out and do what they should have done from the start. Perhaps they can ask Stonewall for some money to start them off?

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/#:~:text=The%20researchers%20state%3A,convicted%20of%20a%20violent%20offence.

A Swedish cohort study by Dhejne et al. (2011) followed a population of individuals who had undergone surgical and legal sex reassignment involving hormonal and surgical treatment between 1973 and 2003 (324 in total)

“It is crucial to emphasise that this study looks only at those who have undergone hormonal and surgical transition, which is a much tighter group than individuals who self- identify as transgender.”

“MtF transitioners were over 6 times more likely to be convicted of an offence than female comparators and 18 times more likely to be convicted of a violent offence. The group had no statistically significant differences from other natal males”

Ministry of Justice 2020 Data:

Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent official count of transgender prisoners):
76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%
125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3% 13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison = 16.8%

It’s how I read it too, thought it quite funny and obviously sarcasm

58% of murdered trans people globally whose occupation is known were sex workers

70% of all the murders registered happened in Central and South America;

TVT TMM UPDATE • TRANS DAY OF REMEMBRANCE 2021

https://transrespect.org/en/tmm-update-tdor-2021/

these are global murder stats.

I cannot find stats on Britain other than ONS refusing to provide data as the numbers are so small the data would be outing. stonewall self reported stats which say a third of trans people self repot surfing transphobia in 2018 and has increased 11% per year for 5 years since (total 186%)

of note perhaps is stonewalls stats on Hate crimes on the basis of sexual orientation are up by 112% in the last five years but we don’t see such public outcry for the suffering of homosexuals as we do trans individuals. Do t forget before the clarification we just had of the EA2010 homosexuals couldn’t meet without including trans individuals and had no spaces for themselves. They have suffered along with women and children at the TWAW/TMAM stonewall push and lesbians have suffered a double whammy.

I am absolutely not condoning violence or hate towards anyone. It is disgusting and wrong no matter who it is directed at. I just think we need to acknowledge that a lot of the hyperbole comes from data from other countries and those with the loudest voices while other voices have been silenced. Trans individuals are most certainly not the only people suffering hate and protecting one group cannot come with increased risk to another

Stonewall's version of "hate crime" is about as realistic as Stonewall's version of "the law" is

Because to Stonewall someone saying, not even in your presence, "humans can't change sex" is "literal violence". We have no way, if relying on Stonewall, of ascertaining any facts.
But let women try to label people saying "i hope TERFs die in a grease fire" as "hate speech" then it's all suddenly "freedom of expression" and therefore not hate, not a crime and definitely not literal violence. They are reluctant to label punching an elderly woman as literal violence, IIRC, so you can see the problem here.

Men will be abused in mens toilets - what’s new but women aren’t going to go about abusing trans folks surely - things will settle down and third spaces will be the norm, they will hate that though

I was married with 2 young children by the time glamrock took hold and without TV they never really featured for me. My era was the mid and late 60s, the heyday of the Beatles, the Stones, the Who, etc. Great days....😁

Yes they do, the law was being misrepresented by StoneBalls

Ahh, the New Romantics with their eyeliner. Gorgeous!

(teenager in their 80s).

Then, people could wear what they wanted, and you just accepted them for who they were. Men wore make- up . So what. It wasn’t an issue.

Speaking of beautiful looking feminine men.... Roger Taylor.

Oh, I was thinking Roger Taylor wasn't especially feminine looking 🤣 rather handsome though

Quite right @OchonAgusOchonOh I'm afraid I was being a bit facetious. I'd hate to think ' cottaging ' depended upon some court ruling. No doubt the Gents will still be the Gents , no more no less.

Wrong Roger Taylor 😉

I wouldn't say no to dinner with either though.

the point about men like the (beautiful) Roger Taylor, Marc Bolan (esp Bolan) etc etc, was that they went out with so so so many women. Many women. There was no doubting their masculinity. Same with Bowie (although to be fair, with him it was more "any human with a pulse")

This!!

someone was asking about stats on wether trans individuals were at increased risk of violence compared to women and other groups?

I just spent a couple hours searching for such research and can’t find anything substantial.

I do t know if it was this thread or another but in other countries they are at higher risk of murder. Not this country where the data reads like they are at less risk but the sample size is so small it’s not reliable. Notably high numbers of trans individuals murdered work in the sex industry and their murder rates are similar to women working in that industry.

Lots of obscuring the data with LGBT grouped together. What I have found is mostly self reported and the rates are very high for feelings and exclusion noting on actual violence. But then it’s not a surprise the stats are high for feeling excluded if they mean wrong sex facilities.

Conviction rates for gender identity motivated hate crimes match those of the other hate crime groups (4-6%), with the exception of disability hate crime with only 1-2% conviction rates. The vast majority of hate crimes are against race and religion, I have no idea how this stacks up against % of these groups suffering it would need clear data on how many people are in each group and skills in statistics I do not have.

some stats on their over representation in prison with further research called for into the why if that. Trans women in prison have higher rates of violent and sexual conversations than men.

Trans individuals have higher education levels than the national average and are more likely to be employed below their academic level. Likely to be employed in the public sector (28% pre transition, 42% post transition). Also more likely to be self employed.

Trans people have been found to be more likely to have problems with debt or paying bills (54 per cent) than others (32 per cent) and to think that their gender identity is related to these problems (46 per cent).

But mainly over and over I read more research needed or poor data when trying to find this information

No, women getting our rights back is not very sad. Trans are still protected under the equality act, they are just no longer allowed to illegally invade our spaces.

Micaela64 · Yesterday 11:55

All the bigots who hate them will be emboldened to abuse them after this ruling and Trans Women now face the risk of being attacked in men's toilets etc. It's very sad.

Still, at least the likelihood of women and girls being abused, intimidated, or self excluding from public toilets is now massively reduced. It's the exact opposite of sad.

I'm not sure why you posted propaganda from New Zealand, pretending that TW are more likely to be victims, when in this country, they're orders of magnitude more likely to be offenders.

In fact, they're by far and away the safest demographic in the UK. Why, it's almost as if you have some sort of agenda.