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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Secondary School complaint about mixed sex changing rooms. Update, school response and request for help writing the escalated complaint to governors

364 replies

TangenitalContrivance · 05/04/2025 16:56

Hello everyone. Some may remember I asked for help with a complaint to my daughter’s secondary school in Brighton which allows Males into female changing spaces. Including swimming, without informing either children or parents.

this is clearly a safeguarding issue, borderline illegal and must not be allowed to stand.

I’m going to have to take the whole thing through a governors complaint and even higher, which I am willing to do.

please, if you can, could you read my complaint and the schools subsequent response and give me pointers for what to say in my follow up.

feel free to use the original complaint at your own school. You will be surprised how many are doing this!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/04/2025 07:59

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 07:48

Small update: school have acknowledged receipt:

"I can formally acknowledge receipt of your request to proceed to Stage 2 of the complaints process, and I will be convening a panel of three Governors to consider your appeal.
I note the areas of concern you have outlined, along with the outcomes you are seeking. These will be included in the hearing papers. If there are any additional documents you would like the panel to consider, please forward them to me at your earliest convenience.
In line with the complaints procedure, the hearing should take place within 15 school days, with at least 5 school days’ notice and circulation of all papers to both parties. I am therefore looking to schedule the hearing between 9th May and 16th May.
Could you please confirm your availability within this timeframe. This will help in coordinating a suitable date alongside the availability of the school representatives and Governors."

However. My super power if I am honest, is being super organised when I have the time ro respond thoughtfully. Otherwise I tend to get 'emotional' (shout...) I really do not want to attend a face to face hearing - at least not one without significant time to consider all the schools responses.

What would you do?

Ask for it to be done offline and via email? Something else?

I hope this doesn’t come across as trite, but do you have anyone that you could take with you? Someone you could brief on all the issues who would be prepared to speak if you couldn’t?

Otherwise, you could, I suppose, ask for all the questions and comments from the school to be provided to you in advance, with sufficient time for you to prepare a response. I think that ND job applicants sometimes are given this opportunity - not the same situation, but maybe worth at least asking?

SinnerBoy · 25/04/2025 08:00

I'd say that if you attend, have someone who's aware of the issues attend with you, for moral support. Take a few seconds to think about every answer, if you are questioned.

SinnerBoy · 25/04/2025 08:01

P.S. have them take notes.

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 08:12

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/04/2025 07:59

I hope this doesn’t come across as trite, but do you have anyone that you could take with you? Someone you could brief on all the issues who would be prepared to speak if you couldn’t?

Otherwise, you could, I suppose, ask for all the questions and comments from the school to be provided to you in advance, with sufficient time for you to prepare a response. I think that ND job applicants sometimes are given this opportunity - not the same situation, but maybe worth at least asking?

It’s actually that exact ND situation.. :D

OP posts:
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/04/2025 08:43

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 08:12

It’s actually that exact ND situation.. :D

Then, at the risk of sounding trite again, milk it. Explain that because of your ND, you require all the comments, questions etc that will be made at the hearing to be sent to you in full X number of days before the hearing (and pick the amount of time before hand that would make you comfortable). You can then prepare an answer or response to each in your own time.

But I would also still try to have someone there with you. Is there anyone from SSA @2fallsfromSSA who could be with you?

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 13:14

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/04/2025 08:43

Then, at the risk of sounding trite again, milk it. Explain that because of your ND, you require all the comments, questions etc that will be made at the hearing to be sent to you in full X number of days before the hearing (and pick the amount of time before hand that would make you comfortable). You can then prepare an answer or response to each in your own time.

But I would also still try to have someone there with you. Is there anyone from SSA @2fallsfromSSA who could be with you?

Basically asked this.

OP posts:
RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 25/04/2025 20:24

Madcats · 25/04/2025 08:50

I’ve not RTFT, but were you aware of this recent case in Scotland: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9v0d4v43o.amp

Thanks, interesting article. I think the issue is partly caused by the Scottish Government issuing "Transgender Guidance for Schools", which is obviously guidance which only considers a trans point of view, ignoring all other considerations.

GCAcademic · 25/04/2025 21:07

@TangenitalContrivance
Have you seen the interim guidance just released by the EHRC?:
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment

It states:

"Schools must provide separate single-sex toilets for boys and girls over the age of 8. It is also compulsory for them to provide single-sex changing facilities for boys and girls over the age of 11.
Pupils who identify as trans girls (biological boys) should not be permitted to use the girls’ toilet or changing facilities, and pupils who identify as trans boys (biological girls) should not be permitted to use the boys’ toilet or changing facilities. Suitable alternative provisions may be required."

ThisLoftyBrickOP · 25/04/2025 21:09

GC you beat me to it! This is great for you OP.

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 21:46

Literally came here to say this and link!!

OP posts:
TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 21:47

I am of course very pleased and will be following up with the school about this tomorrow

OP posts:
TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 21:51

I assume the school may try and get away with it by saying they allow children who object to mixed sex changing rooms to have their own spaces if they ask

OP posts:
U53rName · 25/04/2025 21:53

That’s not what “should not be permitted” means though…

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 25/04/2025 21:55

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 21:47

I am of course very pleased and will be following up with the school about this tomorrow

Brilliant news!

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 22:21

U53rName · 25/04/2025 21:53

That’s not what “should not be permitted” means though…

Well
indeed 😆😆

OP posts:
Conxis · 25/04/2025 22:21

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 21:47

I am of course very pleased and will be following up with the school about this tomorrow

This is great news for you. They have no defence now

thenoisiesttermagant · 25/04/2025 23:23

Conxis · 25/04/2025 22:21

This is great news for you. They have no defence now

Exactly - keep the receipts though and how they tried to brush you off! Remember the SC judgement ruled on what the law has always been. So they've been breaking the law.

Honestly, it's not bloody rocket science to know that over a certain age girls and boys shouldn't be sharing, and that's based on biological sex. Anyone who can't see that's true, and it's essential for girls to access education (as all development charities seem to somehow know when it comes to other countries), shouldn't be in a position of responsibility over children.

I really want people to lose their jobs over this, or it will just happen again.

BonfireLady · 27/04/2025 08:58

Hopefully this is now a done and dusted case. However, it's very possible that the unions and some activist teachers will be telling schools leadership teams that things still aren't clear etc etc.

As bonkers as it sounds, my children's school went to its solicitors regarding paragraphs 205-209 of the statutory KCSIE guidance (the 4 paragraphs that talk about the difference between being LGB and gender questioning and the relevance of the Cass Report when supporting vulnerable children amongst other things) and told me that they had received advice that they didn't need to follow these paragraphs because they are draft. There is a note above the 4 paragraphs that says that this section is "under review". It doesn't say it's draft though. I think it's been mentioned elsewhere on this thread that the Prevent section of this statutory guidance is also marked as "under review". I can't imagine a school saying it doesn't need to follow Prevent protocol on this basis!!

So my caution here would be to expect the unexpected. The school may well double down, depending on where it's getting its advice from. Unfortunately some schools might actively seek advice on how to avoid following the law, rather than accept that they have made a mistake.

@TangenitalContrivance do you have someone who will go to the hearing with you if it still goes ahead? I can see this was mentioned as a possibility up thread.

WarriorN · 27/04/2025 09:52

in the absence of direct guidance about things like PE and PSHE I don’t doubt for one nano second that they will defend this to the hilt.

they will likely reorganise the loos somehow but they will find workarounds on every other point

I also think that the hyperbole around most vulnerable in society (for being trans rather than a host of other issues) will step up a notch. and that could also have the unintended consequence of more children identifying as trans

TangenitalContrivance · 27/04/2025 11:14

Email to school today:

Subject: Immediate Update Required Following EHRC Interim Guidance on Supreme Court Ruling

Dear xxxx, and Members of the Senior Leadership Team and Governing Body,

I am writing to you urgently following the Equality and Human Rights Commission's (EHRC) interim update issued on 24 April 2025 regarding the practical implications of the recent UK Supreme Court judgment on the definition of "sex" under the Equality Act 2010.

The EHRC, being the authoritative body on equality law in the United Kingdom, has issued exceptionally clear and decisive interim guidance. I expect xxx School, as a public authority subject to the Equality Act, to comply with this guidance without delay.

The key passage from the EHRC update states:

> "Schools must provide separate single-sex toilets for boys and girls over the age of 8. It is also compulsory for them to provide single-sex changing facilities for boys and girls over the age of 11.

> Pupils who identify as trans girls (biological boys) should not be permitted to use the girls’ toilet or changing facilities, and pupils who identify as trans boys (biological girls) should not be permitted to use the boys’ toilet or changing facilities. Suitable alternative provisions may be required."

This now removes any ambiguity or discretion. The EHRC's position is fully aligned with the Supreme Court's ruling: single-sex facilities must be based on biological sex, not gender identity.

Accordingly:

  • Biological males must not be permitted to use female changing rooms, toilets, or any other spaces designated for females.
  • Biological females must not be permitted to use male changing rooms, toilets, or spaces designated for males.
  • Suitable private alternatives may be arranged where necessary.

Given the gravity and clarity of this updated national guidance, I now formally ask the entire senior leadership team and the governors:

  1. To immediately review all school policies and practices related to toilets, changing rooms, showers, overnight accommodations, and similar facilities to ensure they comply fully with the EHRC interim guidance.
  2. To confirm in writing, without delay, that xxx School will comply with this interim guidance in full.
  3. To confirm that all staff will be updated and trained accordingly as a matter of urgency.

It is vital to underline that liability for any breaches in these safeguarding and equality duties will rest with the school leadership and the governing body personally, not with the local authority.

The EHRC is the statutory expert body on equality law. Its analysis is beyond reproach. Any failure to immediately align school practice with this binding guidance would constitute a very serious safeguarding, legal, and governance failure.

I trust you will treat this matter with the utmost seriousness it demands. Please confirm your position urgently.

For clarity, my original Stage 2 complaint continues to stand and should proceed fully through the complaints process as expected. However, this EHRC interim guidance demands immediate separate action by the school leadership to ensure full and urgent compliance with national statutory law.

Yours sincerely,

xxxx
Father of two pupils at xxxxx School

OP posts:
BonfireLady · 27/04/2025 11:14

WarriorN · 27/04/2025 09:52

in the absence of direct guidance about things like PE and PSHE I don’t doubt for one nano second that they will defend this to the hilt.

they will likely reorganise the loos somehow but they will find workarounds on every other point

I also think that the hyperbole around most vulnerable in society (for being trans rather than a host of other issues) will step up a notch. and that could also have the unintended consequence of more children identifying as trans

Edited

they will likely reorganise the loos somehow but they will find workarounds on every other point

This is very possible. In my own experience, the school advised me that changing rooms and toilets are separated by biological sex, not gender identity. They also advised me that a child who says that they identify as a different gender from their sex and doesn't want to use the single-sex spaces will be given an alternative. That's great as it means they are following the law on single sex spaces but it also means that there remain many other issues which put gender questioning children at risk of harm because of their approach to the wider points relating to gender identity e.g. they actively promote the idea that it's important to support someone's gender identity, they think it's important that teachers should be allowed to send their preferred pronouns in their email signatures to students and it's very clear that they see me as a risk to my (previously gender questioning) daughter because of "my views". They are consistently failing to recognise that their support for socially transitioning children - and for making sure that children believe it's unkind not to use preferred pronouns - is putting vulnerable children at risk of entering an affirmation pathway into the gender clinics. They even have a safeguarding policy which positions parents who are concerned about their children "exploring their identity" in relation to "gender" as potential domestic abusers.

For the OP, I think this is going to come down to:

a) how far to take this fight. My understanding was that it was (understandably!!) ring-fenced to changing rooms and that the supporting points in the brilliantly written email all linked to this e.g. from the OP's update above:

I am male, the father of two children, one gender questioning. I see this as one small thing I might be able to do to set the world on an even keel - keep males out of female changing spaces in schools

b) what the school does next. It's very possible that they'll say they are now going to have single-sex changing rooms and toilets in line with the SC ruling on the meaning of the words in the EA and the existing legislation relating specifically to schools. However, they may not - if they don't, it looks like the OP has an incredibly strong case if this needed to be taken further.

BonfireLady · 27/04/2025 11:16

BonfireLady · 27/04/2025 11:14

they will likely reorganise the loos somehow but they will find workarounds on every other point

This is very possible. In my own experience, the school advised me that changing rooms and toilets are separated by biological sex, not gender identity. They also advised me that a child who says that they identify as a different gender from their sex and doesn't want to use the single-sex spaces will be given an alternative. That's great as it means they are following the law on single sex spaces but it also means that there remain many other issues which put gender questioning children at risk of harm because of their approach to the wider points relating to gender identity e.g. they actively promote the idea that it's important to support someone's gender identity, they think it's important that teachers should be allowed to send their preferred pronouns in their email signatures to students and it's very clear that they see me as a risk to my (previously gender questioning) daughter because of "my views". They are consistently failing to recognise that their support for socially transitioning children - and for making sure that children believe it's unkind not to use preferred pronouns - is putting vulnerable children at risk of entering an affirmation pathway into the gender clinics. They even have a safeguarding policy which positions parents who are concerned about their children "exploring their identity" in relation to "gender" as potential domestic abusers.

For the OP, I think this is going to come down to:

a) how far to take this fight. My understanding was that it was (understandably!!) ring-fenced to changing rooms and that the supporting points in the brilliantly written email all linked to this e.g. from the OP's update above:

I am male, the father of two children, one gender questioning. I see this as one small thing I might be able to do to set the world on an even keel - keep males out of female changing spaces in schools

b) what the school does next. It's very possible that they'll say they are now going to have single-sex changing rooms and toilets in line with the SC ruling on the meaning of the words in the EA and the existing legislation relating specifically to schools. However, they may not - if they don't, it looks like the OP has an incredibly strong case if this needed to be taken further.

To add:

I've just seen the latest update from the OP. Great letter!

Immediate action requested now and on with the complaint 💪💪💪

WarriorN · 27/04/2025 11:21

Yes - they are actually affirming the child’s “identity” (aka “reality”) as “trans” (ie born in tbe wrong body) by offering alternative spaces.

WarriorN · 27/04/2025 11:26

at the same time there is obviously a concern around mental health of these children as they fully believe that the trans identity is central to their issues.