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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Secondary School complaint about mixed sex changing rooms. Update, school response and request for help writing the escalated complaint to governors

364 replies

TangenitalContrivance · 05/04/2025 16:56

Hello everyone. Some may remember I asked for help with a complaint to my daughter’s secondary school in Brighton which allows Males into female changing spaces. Including swimming, without informing either children or parents.

this is clearly a safeguarding issue, borderline illegal and must not be allowed to stand.

I’m going to have to take the whole thing through a governors complaint and even higher, which I am willing to do.

please, if you can, could you read my complaint and the schools subsequent response and give me pointers for what to say in my follow up.

feel free to use the original complaint at your own school. You will be surprised how many are doing this!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
TheSandgroper · 24/04/2025 15:16

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/04/2025 13:40

The regulatory bodies were specifically targeted by Stonewall - Social Work England, the CQC, even I think the GMC.
It's why these lobby groups have been able to so comprehensively dilute safeguarding for such an exceptionally vulnerable group of children.

I was only listening to a UK podcast a few weeks ago that I came across - no idea what one, sorry, so I can’t direct you there - but it said a member of (I think) PIE was a social worker, became a university lecturer and then wrote the major text book for social work students thereby influencing generations of them and the regulatory bodies.

This man was deeply creepy.

WarriorN · 24/04/2025 15:26

Yes, these things appear to happen frequently

Jfybcderk · 24/04/2025 15:56

Globules · 22/04/2025 18:12

Sharing this, as it might be helpful. It's from a company which advise schools. I found it today on the Teacher Tapp website (v useful app for the education community to keep abreast of current issues)

https://www.edapt.org.uk/blog/2025/04/supreme-court-ruling-schools-sex-definition/?utm_source=teachertapp&utm_medium=app

Case Study 4: Temporary access in an emergency
Scenario: Taylor is a Year 9 pupil, who identifies as female and is legally male (based on biological sex). They normally use a separate unisex facility near the library. Due to a burst pipe, that facility and the nearby accessible toilet are out of order for several days. Their only option is to use the boys’ toilets or not attend school. Taylor’s parent asks if they can use the girls’ toilets temporarily.
School’s response: The school considers the situation an emergency. The girls’ toilets are multi-cubicle with floor-to-ceiling partitions and individual locking doors. After a risk and dignity assessment, and in consultation with parents and staff, the school agrees that Taylor may use a specific cubicle in the girls’ toilets for no more than one week while repair work is completed. A clear plan is documented, with signage, timetable adjustments to avoid crowding, and a commitment to return to previous arrangements as soon as the separate toilet is available.
Legal position: This may be lawful in an exceptional, time-limited emergency if the school can demonstrate that:

  • The inclusion was the least intrusive option available;
  • It did not compromise the long-term legal status of the girls’ toilet;
  • The decision was proportionate, documented, and reversed once the disruption ended.
This approach aligns with schools’ duties to provide education, ensure dignity, and avoid unnecessary disruption, while still upholding the law’s requirement to maintain appropriate single-sex provision.

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So they are not providing single sex toilets for the girls on a temporary basis. Is that what they are saying? I thought schools had to provide single sex toilets.

Keeptoiletssafe · 24/04/2025 16:03

I think edapt are regretting posting that article.
However, they have now got most of my correspondence with the DfE for reading.

TheOtherRaven · 24/04/2025 16:06

Jfybcderk · 24/04/2025 15:56

Case Study 4: Temporary access in an emergency
Scenario: Taylor is a Year 9 pupil, who identifies as female and is legally male (based on biological sex). They normally use a separate unisex facility near the library. Due to a burst pipe, that facility and the nearby accessible toilet are out of order for several days. Their only option is to use the boys’ toilets or not attend school. Taylor’s parent asks if they can use the girls’ toilets temporarily.
School’s response: The school considers the situation an emergency. The girls’ toilets are multi-cubicle with floor-to-ceiling partitions and individual locking doors. After a risk and dignity assessment, and in consultation with parents and staff, the school agrees that Taylor may use a specific cubicle in the girls’ toilets for no more than one week while repair work is completed. A clear plan is documented, with signage, timetable adjustments to avoid crowding, and a commitment to return to previous arrangements as soon as the separate toilet is available.
Legal position: This may be lawful in an exceptional, time-limited emergency if the school can demonstrate that:

  • The inclusion was the least intrusive option available;
  • It did not compromise the long-term legal status of the girls’ toilet;
  • The decision was proportionate, documented, and reversed once the disruption ended.
This approach aligns with schools’ duties to provide education, ensure dignity, and avoid unnecessary disruption, while still upholding the law’s requirement to maintain appropriate single-sex provision.

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So they are not providing single sex toilets for the girls on a temporary basis. Is that what they are saying? I thought schools had to provide single sex toilets.

Oh for fucks sake.

NO. In that kind of situation the child uses staff toilets, or the disabled toilet, for a week, it's not in the least difficult and no embarrassment to anyone, that kid included. What kind of twit is writing this nonsense? There is no time and no situation in which the girls can be sacrificed for and to a special boy.

Jfybcderk · 24/04/2025 16:07

Keeptoiletssafe · 24/04/2025 16:03

I think edapt are regretting posting that article.
However, they have now got most of my correspondence with the DfE for reading.

Well done @Keeptoiletssafe

I can't believe they have updated but still fallen short.

TheOtherRaven · 24/04/2025 16:13

Just read some of the first sampled paragraphs on the Twitter thread - whoever wrote this drivel either didn't read the judgment or lacks the capacity to understand it, this is wall to wall bollocks.

thenoisiesttermagant · 24/04/2025 16:22

TheOtherRaven · 24/04/2025 16:06

Oh for fucks sake.

NO. In that kind of situation the child uses staff toilets, or the disabled toilet, for a week, it's not in the least difficult and no embarrassment to anyone, that kid included. What kind of twit is writing this nonsense? There is no time and no situation in which the girls can be sacrificed for and to a special boy.

Edited

They're rather assuming that the parents who respond to the 'consultation' won't say 'fuck off' with removing my daughter's right to privacy, dignity and safety, too.

And also any half decent 'risk and decency' assessment would ALSO determine a boy cannot use female ss toilets without trampling all over the human rights of girls.

The extreme misogyny put in reasonable tones is so depressing.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/04/2025 16:23

TheSandgroper · 24/04/2025 15:16

I was only listening to a UK podcast a few weeks ago that I came across - no idea what one, sorry, so I can’t direct you there - but it said a member of (I think) PIE was a social worker, became a university lecturer and then wrote the major text book for social work students thereby influencing generations of them and the regulatory bodies.

This man was deeply creepy.

That was Peter Righton - Director of Education at the Institute of Social Work , consultant at the National Children's Bureau, chair of governors in a school and member of PIE. He positioned himself in positions of power in these and other institutions. He wrote academic papers and campaigned to promote "sexual relationships" between adults and children.

He was jailed for importing images of child sex abuse. A dangerous man who was able to use his powerful positions in organisations to promote paedophilia.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/04/2025 17:11

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/04/2025 16:23

That was Peter Righton - Director of Education at the Institute of Social Work , consultant at the National Children's Bureau, chair of governors in a school and member of PIE. He positioned himself in positions of power in these and other institutions. He wrote academic papers and campaigned to promote "sexual relationships" between adults and children.

He was jailed for importing images of child sex abuse. A dangerous man who was able to use his powerful positions in organisations to promote paedophilia.

What did I just read? With my own eyes? How does this shit just keep happening?!?

🤮

moto748e · 24/04/2025 17:28

It's amazing that the lessons of PIE in the 70s weren't learnt.

WhyThatsDelightful · 24/04/2025 17:29

….because the teaching profession observably does not safeguard children. It’s evident it does the opposite.

This Brighton school will be following its LEA policies, specifically the infamous Trans Inclusion School’s Toolkit. In response to a legal review by Karon Monaghan KC last year, Brighton’s Labour council updated it to limit its legal liability, passing it over to head teachers and governors. Parents’ were expecting safeguarding, not the management of institutional risk of legal liability.

From the local newspaper story covering this update:

“(And) by passing off responsibility to schools by saying it is up to them to ensure compliance with evidence, policy and law and saying that the council’s toolkit is non-prescriptive schools and other educational settings are exposed to potential litigation, while enabling the council to protect itself from challenge.”

The Green Party joined in with the Labour council’s position:

”Green councillor Kerry Pickett backed the toolkit and said that local children were lucky to live in a place where their wellbeing took precedence.”

and

“Councillor Pickett said: “Shockingly, Brighton and Hove is now the only council brave enough to revise its trans toolkit and maintain its use.”

along with

“All other councils have withdrawn their toolkits, not because they don’t believe in them or think they provide good guidance, but because they have been bullied by fear that they may be sued, something few councils can ill afford.

plus

“I salute the bravery of this council to not only refuse to bow to the bully tactics of such groups but also to put the lives of these children and the staff that teach them at the forefront of policy.”

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2025/01/31/transgender-healthcare-and-schools-policies-come-under-spotlight/

https://content.doyleclayton.co.uk/hubfs/Advice%20of%20Karon%20Monaghan%20KC.pdf

Transgender healthcare and schools policies come under spotlight

A pilot project to provide gender services in Sussex, rather than having people travel to London, is now halfway through

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2025/01/31/transgender-healthcare-and-schools-policies-come-under-spotlight/

WhyThatsDelightful · 24/04/2025 17:30

Can you see what it is yet?

moto748e · 24/04/2025 17:47

What makes Councillor Pickett so confident that Brighton Council won't be sued?

WarriorN · 24/04/2025 18:14

moto748e · 24/04/2025 17:28

It's amazing that the lessons of PIE in the 70s weren't learnt.

nothing’s been learnt since Savile either!

abusers will always find a way.

WarriorN · 24/04/2025 18:15

moto748e · 24/04/2025 17:47

What makes Councillor Pickett so confident that Brighton Council won't be sued?

I wonder if he still thinks that now….

TangenitalContrivance · 24/04/2025 18:19

moto748e · 24/04/2025 17:47

What makes Councillor Pickett so confident that Brighton Council won't be sued?

Oh give me time…

OP posts:
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/04/2025 18:21

TangenitalContrivance · 24/04/2025 18:19

Oh give me time…

👏👏👏👏👏

SternJoyousBee · 24/04/2025 18:46

Brilliant letter.

I have not RTFT and I am sure you received some great quality advice from other posters.

Peregrina · 24/04/2025 21:28

What of those schools which are not under Local Authority control? Who does the buck get passed to then?

moto748e · 24/04/2025 21:38

Peregrina · 24/04/2025 21:28

What of those schools which are not under Local Authority control? Who does the buck get passed to then?

I'm sure that was listed upthread somewhere. Whatever the type of school, there is always someone responsible.

Keeptoiletssafe · 24/04/2025 21:48

(Waves magic wand)

Direct from DfE:

In terms of health and safety in schools, all schools must adhere to the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974. The employer in a school must take reasonable steps to ensure that staff and pupils are not exposed to risks to their health and safety.

The employer is required to ensure that a risk assessment is conducted and measures put in place to minimise any known risk. Employers, school staff and others also have a duty under common law to take care of pupils in the same way that a prudent parent would.

The employer in a school will vary depending on the type of school. For community, voluntary controlled, community special, and maintained nursery schools this is the local authority. For foundation schools, foundation special schools and voluntary aided schools the employer is the governing board. For academies and free schools, the employer is the governing board or academy trust and the proprietor is the employer in independent schools.

Schools must have a health and safety policy in place which the headteacher is responsible for implementing.

thevassal · 24/04/2025 22:11

surely they've shot themselves in the foot a bit with this
"Any student who has a need or desire for increased privacy, regardless of the underlying reason, will be provided with a reasonable alternative changing area
such as the use of a private area or with a separate time to change."

As @SinnerBoy has queried, surely this means that, even if the trans child themselves feels happy changing with the pupils of their acquired gender, this confirms that if anyone else isn't happy changing with them then they will be allowed to change elsewhere.

Back in the dim and distant past, when I was a teen I would absolutely have desired a private changing room rather than being squeezed into a tiny one with three classes of other girls, so they are saying that any pupil can have a private space if they want one, even if the reason is just "because I don't want to get changed in front of anyone else" which is obviously completely unworkable in practice.

As a stop-gap while you are progressing your complaint OP, could you reply saying "as you have confirmed that any child who wants one will be provided with an alternative, I would like to accept this offer on behalf of both my children." (presuming they are happy with this)

moto748e · 24/04/2025 22:36

And once again you think, Jeez, does no-one just think these things through?

TangenitalContrivance · 25/04/2025 07:48

Small update: school have acknowledged receipt:

"I can formally acknowledge receipt of your request to proceed to Stage 2 of the complaints process, and I will be convening a panel of three Governors to consider your appeal.
I note the areas of concern you have outlined, along with the outcomes you are seeking. These will be included in the hearing papers. If there are any additional documents you would like the panel to consider, please forward them to me at your earliest convenience.
In line with the complaints procedure, the hearing should take place within 15 school days, with at least 5 school days’ notice and circulation of all papers to both parties. I am therefore looking to schedule the hearing between 9th May and 16th May.
Could you please confirm your availability within this timeframe. This will help in coordinating a suitable date alongside the availability of the school representatives and Governors."

However. My super power if I am honest, is being super organised when I have the time ro respond thoughtfully. Otherwise I tend to get 'emotional' (shout...) I really do not want to attend a face to face hearing - at least not one without significant time to consider all the schools responses.

What would you do?

Ask for it to be done offline and via email? Something else?

OP posts: