Does anyone else resent the gender/ TERF wars?

[TERFCat]

I met up with an old friend last night. The first two hours were magical! Everything was going great until the "what is a woman?" question popped up... Then, it all turned sour, and I don't think she and I will be catching up again for a long time.

Basically, whilst I think women's rights are paramount and should be defended whenever necessary, I'm really starting to resent the impact this had on my real life.

I have lost friends over this, and I've likely been stopped from making more too!

Does anyone else feel this way?

I would call repeatedly shouting FUCKING DARE YOU and using insults abusive. If that doesn't fit your bill, just because it's a woman doing it, you need to re-evaluate.

I am a rape survivor. It doesn't make me hate trans people or talk to people like shit. It's not something you can hold over my head to show you are right and I'm a cold misogynist that has no idea how it feels to be vulnerable.

If you have hadn't had an unhinged outburst at me you I would have been more interested in talking to you, correct. How does it feel to know that your hostility e ded the conversation before it began? Again, I wouldn't let a man talk to me that way either. When people start shouting, swearing and accusing me of being all sorts of things with no evidence, I'm out. I don't have to beg a keyboard for forgiveness for me views, or ask permission, or come grovelling cap in hand explaining why I'm not an awful person. Just no.

This is hot about 'hsting' trans people.

Itis about rape victims needing same sex spaces away from men.

Donyou support their (and other women's) rights to those?

And it's worth pointing out, that having a big tantrum about 'tone' is behaviour we see very frequently on here.

As people realise that they do not have the arguments against what is being said, they turn attention towards how it is being said so they can still cast GCs as the big baddies.

Its cognitive dissonance playing out in real time. It's very tiresome to witness

You've made it quite clear how deeply offended you are by being sworn at by one poster and you are using this as a reason to have no further debate. But what about the many other posters who did not swear? Why can't you answer our questions? You've answered questioned about larping and battle reenactments but what about the question of single sex spaces?

The Righteous: "Proper partially-sentient service bipeds must be nice and kind and gentle and put the actual humans' whims and desires first - if they display malfunctioning behaviour then they must be scolded for being abusive, ranting, unhinged, hysterical, hostile, hateful, rageful..."

I always welcome any discussion of a topic that allows me to sort out the douche canoes from who I want to keep close in my life. There have been some surprises along the way, but not many.

A rape survivor would know why female only single sex spaces and facilities are vital; that is rock bottom basic.

And it's not about hating 'trans people' or even hating males. It's about not wanting males - ANY males - in female only intimate single sex spaces.

I never accused you of anything.

It’s the privilege of being a woman that trans people have stolen.

How dare they demand that we should meekly step aside to allow them to take their perceived ‘rightful’ place as true women. They aren’t special. Trans people are nothing more than human beings just like the rest of us.
The difference is the uniqueness and exceptional qualities of being born female that Transwomen will never be able to emulate.

The violence and abuse trans people might face is nothing in comparison to the violence, abuse and control women face daily from men. Trans people expose their maleness with every action they take.

Trans people and their fanatical followers will just have to accept they will never reach
the pinnacle that they desire.

Claiming to be a rape survivor but yet not UNDERSTANDING or spotting the distress of a fellow rape victim (which would be obvious and recognisable to that poster if they truly were raped) is yet another sign they are full of it.

I do agree with the majority of what you say @WillIEverBeOk but I have to challenge this bit. When it comes to rape/sexual assault, the starting point always has to be that the survivor is telling the truth. Whoever they are, even if they hold objectionable opinions. This bit reads as if the poster isn't telling the truth and I'm not comfortable with that assumption.

It is, however, extremely difficult to comprehend that someone who has been through such a traumatic experience would not have empathy for others in the same situation and understand why those women would want single sex spaces.

Both are exciting. Writing is the most fun thing I do when alone (alas, now I do most things alone and also it's Lent). Dressing up for whatever occasion is great, too. But writing plays takes tenacity, I suppose.

Well said, Greyskybluesky, this is an important point- if somebody says they are a rape survivor, it does not entitle them to claim we are insulting and hating and all the other things that Glitterknickerbockers accused us of in her first post, and expect everybody to be 'nice' back.

But they are entitled to being believed.

I agree with @Greyskybluesky and @MarieDeGournay - more so on the internet but even in real life, most people have no choice but to take what they are told at face value. If somebody types on a talkboard that they are a rape survivor, how can you know whether they really are or just saying it to score a point?

The issue is what the rest of the world is expected to do with such declarations.

If somebody who says they're a rape survivor declares that they're positively delighted to spend trauma counselling sessions or intimate undressed time with male humans, well that's nice for them, and as we all know such spaces are very readily available for their enjoyment. What said person shouldn't be allowed to do is scold those who don't derive the same level of inclusive euphoria from such scenarios, and make it so that other rape survivors don't get single-sex spaces that they need.

I am so sorry you were raped. However, people react differently. That you do not mind transwomen in women's sex-segregated spaces cannot justify making that decision for others, however, which means that transwomen must respect women's wishes and stay out.

You have accused me of being a misogynist and having no empathy for rape survivors or victims of abuse.

You were too busy ranting to notice that I didn't actually say I don't believe women have the right to single sex spaces. After I pointed this out you continued assuming I don't believe that. Seriously, calm down and read.

I have empathy. You will note as I said to @WillIEverBeOk I haven't actually said at any point women don't deserve single sex spaces. You've all just assumed that because I want trans people to live in peace after seeing the way my friends have been treated.

Yet you don't understand that these males in female spaces mean us females can't 'live in peace'. Of course feminists are not going to let males 'live in peace' if they are entering our spaces! You're acting as if transwomen are victims instead of the invaders they are. They are the ones who won't let anyone live in peace! They are 100% responsible for the pushback they receive.

You also have not answered those who asked you if females deserve single sex spaces. Hmmm why is that?

Plenty are answering. Women do not want men in the hard won spaces they have. They are willing to fight for those spaces, because they have already had to fight for those spaces. We are hostile because the men in frocks and their trans allies have decided to break our boundaries and no-one in the patriarchy has thought it important to protect women - so we will protect ourselves.

I want transpeoe to live in peace. I want all people to live in peace. The problem is too many transpeople do not want me to live in peace because they do not want me to have access to the truly single-sex spaces I need as a rape survivor . So I have to fight.

Personally I don't find solo, sedentary activities exciting. I like to be out being social and active.

Writing is a perfectly valid source of enjoyment but I can't see why you would suggest LARPers should do that instead as if LARPing is a problem or something that should be avoided.

Because quite frankly it's amusing watching you all tie yourself up knots over things I haven't actually said.

I believe women deserve single sex spaces. I don't believe transgender people should be forced into spaces they feel uncomfortable in and I think a lot of people would also be uncomfortable seeing a person presenting as the opposite sex in their single sex spaces. Therefore I think a third space should be available in the form of unisex facilities such as single occupancy rooms with lockable doors rather than open changing rooms or toilets with cubicles.

So there. I'm not a misogynist despite HOW FUCKING DARE I actually care about trans people as well as women. I think you owe me apology for all the insults and slurs you used towards me when you didn't even understand my beliefs, but I won't hold my breath.

I have answered questions about LARP and reenactment because I enjoy LARP and people are often wrong about what LARP is or how rich it is as a community and hobby, it's seriously mind expanding and educating people who think it's uncreative and lacking emotion seems a worthwhile use of my energy.

Having the same argument everyone here has been having for 19 years with no resolution does not seem like a worthwhile use of my energy.

Yes, calling out abusive behaviour is tiring when you would rather people just ignored it because it's a woman doing it so it's fine and you want them to join the ruck.

I have made it quite clear that it is not just the tone but the content of @WillIEverBeOk s posts I have a problem with. Being accused of having no empathy, holding beliefs I don't actually hold and using slurs against me including misogynist I very much have a problem with.

I am not interested in having an "argument" with any of you, but I am interested in telling people who behave that way towards me to fuck off.