Sandie Peggie facing internal misconduct hearing this week!

[NotAtMyAge]

Utterly mind-blowing to read that NHS Fife is pressing ahead with a disciplinary hearing this Friday against Sandie Peggie, despite the Employment Tribunal not having completed its work. Sandie isn't taking this lying down and has started separate legal proceedings according to The Telegraph, which also includes the stunned reaction of Michael Foran to the news in its report.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/ea111fbd4a9af5a6

Archive version: https://archive.ph/lsriA

But Semenya could have fathered them as he has testes, which are functional to a degree given his testosterone in a male range.
Dr Upton wants to father a child too, with his wife. He wants it all, and why not when you've been told you can by supporters?

If at any point, I decided I did not want my DP to be in a room that I wanted to get changed in, did not want him present whilst experiencing heavy menstruation or did not want him to get undressed in front of me, he would not under any circumstances get offended, cry, tell me it's my tough luck because he has the right to be in there or in any way try and coerce, force, threaten or go running to somebody else to get them to make me allow him.

In the same way, if he decided that he would rather have privacy, I'd leave the room.

If the man I live with is capable of understanding the concept of consent to see or be seen (and, unlike the Dr in this case, consent whether to have a male performing an intimate examination whilst incapacitated), I'm pretty sure that a unrelated person should be able to grasp the concept.

Unfortunately, the doctor in this case understands very well - and wishes to override that consent for their own ends. They certainly don't seem to handle perceived rejection/women saying 'No' very well, do they?

You can't actually say 'no one cares' because I bet some women do care but are too scared to say anything.

Sandie Peggies treatment, and suspension is hardly a great example of how an employer should treat its female staff.

"Up to date on medical issues"

Well please enlighten me at what point since the creation of Adam and Eve has Male Adam been able to become Female Eve?

Plastic surgery might change appearance but it doesn't change sex. Adam cannot bare children nor can he feed them with breasts creatated in a theater.

I'd be far more likely to trust Sandie Peggie near me and my kids than to be within a 10mile radius of Dr Beth Upton. And that's all to do with his attitude.

I don't work in healthcare, but it doesn't matter. I still believe in single sex spaces. I happen to work in a very very single-sex space, which has also been discussed in the tribunal threads, and there is no way men should be in the womens establishments, or women in the men's (I am not a nun, for the avoidance of doubt).

I work in healthcare and I don’t want to share a changing room with a man. People believing something they are not is delusional. It is not progress it’s insane.

AnSolas · Today 15:00

An excellent piece of summation.

I have to say that I seriously hope that H112 is not any sort of health professional. Apart from anything else, surely basic literacy it a requirement for such a job?

Do we need to start a new label?
Womenphobia

Womenphobia could be applied to those who fear women having their own things. For example, women's loos. The fear is that women are permitted safety, privacy and dignity.
I mean, who do women think they are - real people like men?

I feel this new label may be easier for people to understand than the word misogyny.

Alternatively, perhaps all new labels and ideology could be dropped as the words sex, sexism and single-sex facilities exist and are relevant when considering human rights.

That’s a good term to adopt - we can start calling people out for being womenphobic

start taking back control of the language

I'm a man, and I can assure you that putting on a dress, or makeup, or calling myself a woman, or walking into a women's changing room, would make absolutely no difference to my maleness. I would still be a man, and I would be no more safe nor less safe than before those actions.

No man who calls himself a woman is to be trusted more than a man who calls himself a man. And if he thinks he has a right to women's spaces, he isn't trustworthy at all.

Yes, a way to take language and use it for the reverse.
A woman who is accused of transphobia could counter it with experiencing womenphobia (as the equal and opposite term).

SinnerBoy thanks

H112 may be in health because there are a whole lot of health porfessionals who are full on TRA. And women adopt it under the " I am feminist because I set my standards as 'to be a man' " so giving birth bodies are not a good thing but an impedimemt.

In a hospital setting the systems were set around the male body or a not-pregnant-woman because unlike other industry women do the bulk of the physical labour and heavy lifting.
And even now pregnant nursing staff worry about disclosing pregnancy (which they need to do early for lifting radioactive patients etc).
And nursing was seen as a vocation not a profession. And as for doctors women are still asked are the nurse or where is the doctor so sexism is rife.

I think Irelands cervical cancer screening shows a good example of how capture works.

They were in the middle of a medical scandal of having failed to source a reliable test center. Women died of cancer as a direct result. One woman discovered why her test failed and was offered a non-disclosure. She refused and the news of the poor screening via her court case went nationwide.
The government were forced to fund from taxes
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/act/31/enacted/en/print#sec2
• a retest for any woman who were worried and
• a public review of why the test center were unreliable and
•a review of how may other women died or were dying as a result of that and
• a compensation fund

So woman is used in the law ^ yet any woman with a GRC (2015+) is excluded and there is no way in hell the public would have accepted their politicans calling women people with a cervix^.

Meanwhile the staff involved with the screening were busy rebranding women into people with a cervix to be 'inclusive' of (a very hostile female) TRA.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/cervical-screening/who-should-have-cervical-screening/who-should-have-screening/

Women and anyone with a cervix between the age of 25 and 65 should go for a cervical screening test when it’s due.

First problem the law is clear public funds are only for women and then screening is free. Women who have chosen to removed themselves from the legal sex class of woman by obtaining a GRC are engaged in stealing public services.
The service have departed from their legal base of opperations.

Second problem is the people signing off on the change of wording were going against their own policy of using plain english which was formally adopted in 2018
https://www.nala.ie/hse-launches-new-plain-english-guidelines-for-staff/

https://about.hse.ie/publications/plain-english/

Third problem is fuckedy fucking obvious using unclear language is a barrier to women accepting the service, so use woman rather than a pretty pink poster about a potential cancerous femicidal female only body part.

The women who wanted the word woman put back in had to fight ( via public outrage) rather than than the 'Managers' accept they needed to keep the word woman. And a lot of non medical self labling feminists were very nasty about it.

The whole One Job To Do (and save the most with the crap funding) went whoosh when faced with being modern and inclusive by pretending women are men.

(PS i have to give people a free pass on literacy, cas my spellings would be a mass murderer in a medical setting 🤷‍♀️)

Don’t be silly, no one ACTUALLY thinks that TWAW. Otherise all the straight men who say this would be dating TW. And all the gay “ trans allies “ would be using TW for surrogacy, to show solidarity with the LGBTQA etc

They are all just pretending because they think it makes them cool, “ on the right side of history “ etc . Or they are scared of the consequences of disagreeing . It’s what NC called “ immersive role play”.

Its all just a game where the rights of unimportant people like nurses and female patients ( women’s and girls ) are subsumed so important people like male doctors / TRAs / MRAs can get their kicks, control others and feel powerful. It’s Andrew Tate for liberals.

Its nothing new, just the same old misogyny / child abuse in trendy new clothes.

Gender ideology makes ridiculous liars out of all who profess to believe in it & push it.

Aside from everything else (and there is a lot) what is the damage to society of huge swathes of people professing to believe humans change sex, men become women by their say so? Surely this is unprecendented on such a scale?

Its the equivalent of people insisiting 1+1=3 & insisting it does not destroy all of maths.

It’s Andrew Tate for liberals

I’d never thought of it like this, but you are so right.

"It’s Andrew Tate for liberals"

I listened to a podcast series about QAnon a while ago - it was all very confusing but my main take away was Gender Ideology is the QAnon of the "left"

I've always thought that "but men can be women too" is the "All Lives Matter" of the "left". (I'm a lefty! )

If people believed TWAW then women would need to mean a unisex adult. As Upton shows, we cannot even use female now to define females, so that word is theoretically becoming unisex.
As sex doesn't stop existing, new words will need to be created for the reality that we all know and see (except the captured).
Or the phase passes and the TWAW falls out of fashion (here's hoping).

The Equality Act does not require that employers make “case-by-case” decisions about excluding males from SS spaces. Just one male- whatever his gender beliefs- would make it mixed sex. And at work employers are required by the 1992 Workplace Regulations to provide separate-sex facilities.

There's an article about this from one of the Human Rights Commissionners here:

'Requiring women – or for that matter men – to expose their naked bodies before members of the opposite sex as a condition of accessing employment, education, other public or private commercial services is without shadow of a doubt a breach of privacy, dignity, decency and human rights. No putative right of individuals asserting transgender identities negates this, whatever lobbyists may claim. '

https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,peggie-v-nhs-fife-more-casualties-to-come

But the thing that hasn't been tested definitively, and which there's a chance this case might provide (when combined with the Supreme Court's hearing of the FWS appeal against Lady Haldane's ruling that a GRC requires a trans person to be treated as the opposite sex in all cases) is the effect that the GRA has on the workings of both the 1992 Workplace Regulations and the 2010 Equality Act. Clearly, it is in conflict with both, or at least creates grey areas in both.

I think that this is the ruling that would actually establish definitively whether females are entitled to spaces from which males are prohibited, regardless of their trans status. It wouldn't be over at that point, of course. If the GC side won, no doubt there would be a response from the GI side. I would hope that at least some of that response would be legal challenge, rather than the more customary death threats, shouting down etc. If the GI side won, no doubt the GC side would focus a lot of attention on repealing or amending the GRA.

All the fife nhs female staff should come
out on strike in support if Sandie.

edited to say, this case will be a landmark in how women are treated going forward.

I've had Uptown Girl as an earworm all day. I've just realised I was hearing it as Upton Girl.

Upton Girl
You've been living in your tra led world
I bet you've never had a earthly why
Sex doesn't change
You'll always be a guy

I don't know if Mr Menno has ever done a pastiche of Uptown Girl. I think it would be right up his street and he'd do a much better job than I have.

Ooh. It seems the EHRC may have asked NHS Fife wtf they're playing at.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78ed8v0g8lo.amp

Anyone think Fife are going to start realising they've played this one wrong yet?!

It wasn’t well worded by EHRC though.