Sandie Peggie facing internal misconduct hearing this week!

[NotAtMyAge]

Utterly mind-blowing to read that NHS Fife is pressing ahead with a disciplinary hearing this Friday against Sandie Peggie, despite the Employment Tribunal not having completed its work. Sandie isn't taking this lying down and has started separate legal proceedings according to The Telegraph, which also includes the stunned reaction of Michael Foran to the news in its report.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/ea111fbd4a9af5a6

Archive version: https://archive.ph/lsriA

Maybe not. "Trans women" are male and don't belong in women's spaces, which are for women. Hope this helps.

Or as some would say 'correctly sexing him'. YVMV. HTH.

It's out job to keep up to date on medical issues and she is clearly ignorant to it so I wouldn't want her touching any patient of mine.

What medical issues would they be? That humans can change sex? That's physically impossible.

I wouldn't want anyone so ignorant of basic human biology as to believe that anywhere near any patient.

I understand Sandie received the letter about it on the second day of the hearing and of course it was assumed the hearing would have finished as planned at the end of the second week. Now the case is only part heard and it seems to me it would reflect extraordinarily badly on NHS Fife if they try to discipline or sack her until it is over and the judgment has been handed down.

The doctor is a transwoman, not a transwomen. In other words he is a man. Men are a danger to women, as most of us have learned at some stage of our lives, and should not be in a female dressing room.

And of course, the usual caveats, not all men, but there's no way of telling which men.

Second edit. Of course there would be no problem with a transman aka a woman in the female dressing room. It isn't about 'trans' it's about that pesky Y chromosome and the maleness it conveys.

Just on the offchance that you can read and assimilate facts, there are 3 relevant pieces of legislation here.

1. the 1992 Workplace Regulations, which state that where an employee is required to wear a uniform and/or change at work, single-sex (sex not gender) changing facilities MUST be provided "for reasons of propriety"
2. the Gender Recognition Act 2004, which states that a person who wishes to be treated as a person of the opposite sex can apply to a panel for a Gender Recognition Certificate which will allow them in most (not all) circumstances to be treated as the opposite sex. To do this they must have lived in their "acquired gender" for a minimum of 2 years. Dr Upton had not been identifying as a woman for 2 years at the time of the incident and so there is no question of a GRC having been issued. This means that the GRA does not apply and Dr Upton is still legally a man.
3. the Equality Act 2010, which defines 9 protected characteristics, including sex and gender reassignment. Sex is straightforward, but gender reassignment is defined as proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex.

It is still possible to exclude trans-identifying people from facilities that are designated as single-sex spaces for the sex with which they identify. The test is whether this is a "proportionate means to a legitimate end". The legitimate ends include physical and psychological safety, privacy and dignity. Very few organisations have to date used these exclusions, largely because I think they have been scared of the trans lobby and because Stonewall and others have deliberately misrepresented the law. That's the legal position.

@H112 please tell us your nursing qualifications, experience and exactly how this enables you to (mis) judge this situation so clearly?
I am very impressed that you have the ability to deduce people’s professions as well as your patients views without asking and I can’t wait to hear more.

Wrong. Under 1992 regulations (still in force) employers have a legal duty to provide single-SEX changing rooms and toilets for their male and female employees. Since humans, like all mammals, cannot change sex, so-called transwomen remain the sex they were born - male - and do not belong in female spaces.

I believe Prof Robert Winston is fairly up to date on medical issues and he says humans cannot change sex.

I love how obvious it is that none of you work in healthcare. The nurse is disgusting for misgendering her. It's out job to keep up to date on medical issues and she is clearly ignorant to it so I wouldn't want her touching any patient of mine.

I bet most people would rather be looked after by SP than someone who believes it is possible for someone to literally change sex, because that is just plain foolish.

They’re all completely captured

I see half term has begun in some areas

If it was going to be just one person I'd sooner be looked after by a health care practitioner with 30 years experience than a trainee just out of medical school. Leaving aside the stuff about basic knowledge of biology, basic understanding of consent, evidence of egomania.

Hello there.

Can you imagine I am a total thicko and explain to me what is a transwoman and how a person becomes one, please .

I'm sure she's not scared of gay people.

But gay male nurses shouldn't be allowed in the women's changing rooms.

Gay female nurses obviously have every right to be in there.

So she works in the medical profession where it’s the norm for male doctors to examine women or carry out uncomfortable or intimate medical procedures- with an option of a chaperone but undeniably it’s common in medicine for men to examine women. But she felt unsafe or whatever around a fellow medical professional because… what? She had her period? What did she think the doctor was going to do???

Definitely doesn’t sound like she just hates trans people :/ why not just own it and admit you just hate trans people rather than jumping through hoops by being like oh well technically she is a man blah blah. aggressively calling your colleague, a fellow medical professional who has probably dealt with a lot worse than a heavy period, a man is anti social behaviour. That’s why they’re pursuing this case against her.

It's Sandie who is making a claim against Upton and Fife at the tribunal.

Technically a man? Ummmm.

Upton is not 'technically a man'. Upton is a man. And his wanting to access undressed woman without their consent, and his declaration of feeling entitled to carry out an intimate examination of an unconscious patient who had specifically said that they did not consent to being examined by a male, is a clear indication of what kind of misogynist male he is.

Why do so many ploppers think that Fife are pursuing a case against Sandie rather than the other (correct) way round

Oh, and @H112 , the question I asked on another thread. have you been physically sexually assaulted by a male, and what age were you when that happened?

Actually lots of women do need and request female HCPs.

Why do you think single sex spaces even exist in the first place?

How on earth do you propose that declaring a trans identity makes a male human exempt from safeguarding? Do you even know what safeguarding is?

Not everything revolves around trans people. Had Upton not chosen to disregard safeguarding and Peggie's boundaries AND then to punish Peggie for refusing to change around him, there would just have been two professionals working alongside each other, holding different beliefs. Something we just about manage quite well in the UK.

I remember fondly back to the days when a man in a women’s changing room would automatically be correctly identified as a peeping Tom. Or a flasher. Or both.

One does have to wonder who it benefits for women to be bullied into no longer standing up to men like that.

Because it isn’t women, is it.

Reading comprehension difficulties?