Public opinion turning against transgender ideology yougov poll

[Lovelyview]

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51545-where-does-the-british-public-stand-on-transgender-rights-in-202425

'a new YouGov study, the fourth in a series reaching back to 2018, shows an increased scepticism towards transgender rights across the board – and particularly in the two and a half years since our previous wave of this study.
Notable in this most recent study – conducted in mid-December – is the growing resistance on transgender rights among those groups that are typically more permissive on the issue, like women and young people.
In fact, the only question on which women now take the permissive view on transgender rights is saying that people should be able to change their gender socially, although at 55% this still represents an eight point drop since the 2022 survey.'

Well worth a read and hopefully a sign of the direction of travel with this issue.

Yes I'm all over the place. Im confused and upset. It's hard to read some of the stuff on here when you have a trans child who is nothing like how they are often depicted. I don't know what I'm trying to ask or say is the honest answer.

I really don't think I'm saying that at all but if that's what you think then fair enough

Am I? Ok, I don't know how you think that perhaps you're right

@BlueJeansAndMoonbeams I don't know what I'm trying to ask or say is the honest answer.

Well then, why not read a few more threads with an open mind. Look at the type of trans-activist that women are berating and you will see someone intent on crossing women's boundaries or circumventing safeguarding of children or someone who is trying their hardest to enable other people to do these things.

The first TRA poster you responded to on this thread turned out to be lying with statistics. You will see this pattern again and again.

I agree about those types of activists, they are vile. It just doesn't chime with my experience of my child. But if I were to say that then I would be told I was trying to say my child was somehow 'special' ( I've seen that said) . So it's hard to know what to say or do, it feels like I should be condemning my child because they are part of a group of people, some of which are awful. I think it's probably better for my mental health not to read any more. I did want to find out more but it's just upsetting so I'm going to duck out.

Considering that OneQuirkyOrca has no posting history, I doubt whether we will get any sense out of those statements and links. I suspect they plopped down what they believe is correct without looking deeply into the information that they posted.

It is sadly very common.

It must be hard not to take comments personally. However, maybe you should not assume people are attacking you or your child and read what people say and think about it from non attack point of view. If someone asks you if you are trying to say that your child is special, perhaps to someone who is looking at the issue from a societal issue is trying to make a point.

However, if you are viewing so much that people say as being negative and personalising it, then I expect that reading threads will feel upsetting. This is a discussion board after all. It is not sanitised and presented to only discuss things neutrally or positively as some moderated social media platforms and groups are.

@BlueJeansAndMoonbeams No-one is asking you to condemn your child.

If your mental health is being threatened by the truth, then you are obviously the person who is going to have to decide how best to handle that. If 'ducking out' is your solution, then that is a shame, but so be it.

We will still be here if you decide to return at some point. There are lots of wise mothers (and some wise fathers) on this forum who have trans-identifying children.

Edit to add @

You are very generous. I'm not convinced they believed it was correct😘

I don't use social media at all so I guess this has come as a bit of a shock to the system. Because my child doesn't go on about being trans or make it a big deal and isn't involved in any activism I probably didn't realise the strength of feeling there is out there. Very naive of me I admit. I must have been living under a rock! Something caught my attention, can't remember what but I followed a link to Mumsnet ( I'd been a casual lurker but only on the general boards, didn't notice this board to be honest). So yes, I feel a bit like I've been hit by a freight train and I am all over the place, talking nonsense probably and trying to get my head round things. Trying to make sense of how my child fits into all this. I feel like I need to go watch videos of kittens for a while lol so I will take a break and see if I can think more rationally.

I should not have been so easily taken in. I really feel quite ridiculous

You had a very strong reaction to it. This is what you said:

Mumsnet will not accept that the majority of trans people are committed and genuine and therefore taking hormones and having surgeries! Instead they tend to think they're all dirty perverts lurking in toilets and changing rooms with the sole intent of molesting or at the very least perving on the opposite sex. I expect they think the same of trans men, I mean they must also be wanting to leer at men by those standards.

Do you still stand by those remarks, knowing that the poster misinformed you?

There is SO much information on this board. Even 6 years ago, I spent months just reading and rarely commenting. Because my own child had come home with a new group of friends and out of 7 of them, five over about a six to twelve month period declared they had transgender identities. I wanted to find out more about what was happening.

However, what I quickly came to realise is that this umbrella term 'transgender' really is very very broad. But I also feel that this broadness has been leveraged by extreme transgender activists (those who prioritise gender over sex even when sex matters) who, I gather, you have also identified. And that those activists make sure that no one discusses the groups separately.

They leverage it this way so that people like I assume, your daughter and Seethlaw, are grouped tightly with male people who very deliberately ignore female people's (and I mean all female people) boundaries. There unfortunately are no convenient terms to separate out the discussions.

From my experience on this board, people like your daughter are considered part of what feminists campaign for. That is, sex based rights for all female people, whether they want them or not. And generally, they are included when we discuss the needs of women and children. And the majority of the pushback is on the male people who have transgender identities and their demands.

Now, obviously, part of that discussion is about language which you have noticed. And you have also acknowledged that you have made your choice about language, but it is not based on your daughter's demands. I think people have attempted to point out that even though you do this, that even then there is potentially some harm in allowing those language changes at a collective level for women and children. It is not personal though. I understand that it may feel personal and that when you look at it from at the level of the individual it really may not feel harmful. Yet, when you start to see the effects collectively, you may or may not gain a different perspective.

I hope this is helpful and doesn't come over as condescending. That is not my intention at all.

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams do you understand what being gender critical means? I ask because most visiting trans activists or trans supporters don’t.

Gender critical means being critical of the concept of gender - where gender is the idea that men and women must behave, dress, express themselves in certain ways - ways that are sexist, regressive and oppressive towards women. Transideology reinforces that. It says women must behave and dress in ways that are oppressive to them and if they wish to behave and express themselves in other ways then they must be men. Or that men who behave and dress in ways that match their, generally porn-influenced, view of what it is to be a woman are women. And the rest of us must accept these definitions of what it is to be a man or a woman. Do you not see how harmful that is?

By calling your daughter ‘he’ and ‘him’ you are reinforcing the idea that there is a correct way to be a woman that is not down to biology but ideas based around sexist stereotypes. And yet even within transideology your daughter cannot escape the patriarchy as men who claim the identity of woman also claim our oppression and will say your daughter, by virtue of her identity, has masculine privilege and therefore must give way to them as they are ‘more oppressed’.

One thing that happens on this board is that information is shared. Some posters will post misinformation and expect it simply to be accepted. But I don't think I have ever seen a link to studies or surveys simply be accepted without some additional layer of commentary.

It is a great place to learn about what information is out there. So, if someone asks if there is a link, it is because that link will be informative one way or another.

Although it is 40 pages long with many links, perhaps if you were after information, the Break it down thread is a good place to start .

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?page=1

No obviously not. It was a stupid comment. I genuinely thought the majority of trans people were committed and therefore that the overwhelming number of posters were just generally anti trans and thought trans people were all behaving in certain ways for nefarious reasons. I can see now that there is quite a large group who are indeed behaving in vile ways and are not genuine which has caused a lot of trouble for the decent ones. They have caused a lot of people who may have been a bit sympathetic or live and let live to push back and I quite understand why. In the end it's a good thing if it stops those disruptive people from trying to get everything their own way, and the thought of those trans women with fetishes, and the perverts and rapists etc makes me shudder and disgusted. I've got to try and square in my mind how my child is associated with such a group of people. It's very hard.

@BlueJeansAndMoonbeams

If it helps.

The males who get into this are often middle aged with hypno cissy porn fetishes that they encounter whilst their wives and girlfriends are pregnant or looking after the kids or at work. This overtakes their whole lives until it completely consumes them.

The females who get into this are often younger women and older girls, who look at men and their obsessions with often violent porn and taking that out on their wives and girlfriends, and who want absolutely nothing to do with being a woman so run as far away from it as they can. Or they are just tomboys who are relentlessly bullied for being 'lesbians' and this is just an easier route out.

The underlying issue is the porn and male violent behaviour, but the direction of travel is often the complete opposite. And is often absolutely nothing to do with a dysphoria or dismorphia or any gender related 'mental health' issue. It is now understood that most things in the DSM manual were just made up to enable medical insurances to be coded against the 'thing' to pay for 'treatment' in the US medical system, and it leaked across the world as it so often does. There are videos on here somewhere of people who have whistleblown how the DSM got so huge.

I honestly can't answer that at the moment. I need to think about it. I believe my child is free to identify as feels right to them and once I got used to the idea (and it absolutely wasn't instant) I decided to use he/ him. Whether I should now use she/her I just can't say. I get what you're saying but its something I need to go over and be clear in my mind about.

Thank you. I will have a read of it in a few days.

"I've got to try and square in my mind how my child is associated with such a group of people. It's very hard."

It has long been recognised on this board that female people and children have been used as political resources by extreme transgender activists. However, over time also though, there comes the discussion of just who are 'truly' transgender people? For instance, there is a very valid reason to ask 'What is the difference between a male person who has their penis and testicles removed for disease or injury and one who chooses to do this to fit their gender identity?'

Because some people think that surgery shows a certain degree of commitment. But commitment to what? Because no male person can actually become female. No matter what they do. And why should any male person feel they have to go through horrific surgery just so to they can receive the reward of trust of some people. It actually doesn't change anything. And it actually doesn't even hang together logically. It is a point of view that is purely driven by emotional reasoning. And those male people still retain male body cues, and as we know from sports, the physical advantages of a male body.

Not only that, but for strong safeguarding to protect female people and children, how do you even assess who intends to cause harm or not. And even those who don't intend to cause harm, likely will cause distress simply because they will be understood to be a male person in a provision set up for female people. It is a situation that the Supreme Court judgement recognised.

So, you will also see push back on any male person who expects to be treated by society as being a female person because of it, whether they are fetishistic, or not.

Hiya BlueJeans. Have you listened to any Helen Joyce podcasts? She talks very knowledgeably on this subject, is very sympathetic to girls being caught up in it and she has a very reassuring voice!

And Gender: a Wider Lense podcast is good. Helen Joyce is interviewed on one of theirs.

I'd honestly never heard of sissy porn until I came on here! It really is revolting and shocking to discover all this, hence why I'm feeling shell shocked. My child was actually bullied badly for being a tomboy lesbian so maybe this is why they became trans. There's a lot for me to unpick right now.

I know, you are absolutely right, I cannot disagree with any of that.

Ah thanks, I will have a listen. I could do with a reassuring voice right now!