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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Public opinion turning against transgender ideology yougov poll

226 replies

Lovelyview · 11/02/2025 13:19

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51545-where-does-the-british-public-stand-on-transgender-rights-in-202425

'a new YouGov study, the fourth in a series reaching back to 2018, shows an increased scepticism towards transgender rights across the board – and particularly in the two and a half years since our previous wave of this study.
Notable in this most recent study – conducted in mid-December – is the growing resistance on transgender rights among those groups that are typically more permissive on the issue, like women and young people.
In fact, the only question on which women now take the permissive view on transgender rights is saying that people should be able to change their gender socially, although at 55% this still represents an eight point drop since the 2022 survey.'

Well worth a read and hopefully a sign of the direction of travel with this issue.

Where does the British public stand on transgender rights in 2024/25? | YouGov

Scepticism towards transgender rights has grown across the board since 2022

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51545-where-does-the-british-public-stand-on-transgender-rights-in-202425

OP posts:
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10
BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:26

Lovelyview · 05/06/2025 17:05

I don't think you've said how old they are. Bayswater support might be helpful to you. https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/ They have a forum for parents to discuss issues around adolescents/young adults who are gender questioning. Personally I'd say be kind and supportive but you also matter and so do any siblings. Your trans identified child isn't the only person affected in this.

Thanks, they are a full grown adult so it really is up to them how they live their life. But if course that doesn't stop me worrying.

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:36

Lovelyview · 05/06/2025 16:48

I honestly don't get where you think most people on this board think your child is bad and perverted. Troubled and confused. Irrational and misguided perhaps. Females who identify as male are a specific cohort who tend to reject their femaleness often at puberty but sometimes later in life. They often have other issues such as autism. They are often same sex attracted and confused or ashamed about this. They may have experienced sexual assault which has led them to reject their femaleness because they see this as the basis for their trauma. They may have found a 'queer' tribe where they have been accepted for 'who they are' and affirmed in the belief that if they can be the opposite sex their feelings of discomfort will miraculously disappear. Sadly this rarely happens and they may be better off accepting their sex, getting counselling for their issues and moving forward in life on the basis of reality rather than fantasy. Gender critical women are deeply sympathetic to women who identify as men because we understand how shit being a woman can be and usually understand what it's like to be gender non-conforming. I'm sorry you feel like this and I'm not saying don't support your child although there is evidence that affirming trans ideation can leave someone without a way of rowing back on their path if they realise they can never actually be a man and don't want to continue with damaging hormones and surgery.

He was same sex attracted and it didn't seem to be an issue at all. It was certainly accepted by me but obviously I can't say what went on in his head. He did have some mental health issues when younger. It's such a complicated thing, I can't say I understand it really and it was quite a shock although I've always tried to be accepting, mainly because he was older. I think probably I get the idea people think it's bad and perverted when in actual fact they are talking about a certain type of trans woman. But I probably just get defensive.

Dwimmer · 05/06/2025 17:36

But if your child is not one of those harmful trans people

Anyone who demands other people uphold a fantasy and ignore reality is harmful.

Helleofabore · 05/06/2025 17:39

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 16:22

When there are such opposing statistics it's difficult to know who is right. Generally speaking I find that on here trans people seem to be despised. As the mother of a trans man, who has come to acceptance, i feel really depressed when I read a lot of the posts on here. Maybe I am wrong to be accepting when there's such constant negative comments. Is my child really a bad, perverted person? Who knows but it's quite horrible. Just saying how it feels to me, I know that doesn't matter.

So you have a daughter with a transgender identity? Yet you personalise comments about mostly male transgender people and consider comments about male people who ignore female people’s boundaries and demand access to single sex provisions that your daughter needs to be general discussion about your daughter?

Or is your child male?

Do you expect any other person to make language accommodations for your child? If so, why?

You seem to be all too keen to find posters hateful from what I can see. I have not seen you contribute much except your own prejudiced view.

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:40

Seethlaw · 05/06/2025 17:14

Edit: This is for BlueJeans

Trans people seem to be despised here because too many of them act or encourage to act in ways that are hurtful or dangerous for women, so of course women fight back and call them out for what they are. But if your child is not one of those harmful trans people, then don't take the words aimed at them as being aimed at your child.

As a transman myself, I've met pretty much nothing but curiosity and acceptance here - as long as I play by the rules, such as accepting to be sexed, not gendered. You get used to it 😁

Edited

Yes I've read some of your posts and you come across as a lovely, intelligent person who is very thoughtful and measured. I absolutely despair at the activists who are behaving abominably and causing such a backlash. It really makes me cringe.

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:42

Greyskybluesky · 05/06/2025 17:16

I absolutely agree on single sex spaces, women's sport, prisons crisis centres and a whole host of things that are only appropriate for women

In that case you have lots in common with many posters on this board and I urge you to stick around.

Look, I can only speak for myself - but I think a lot of the time when posters talk angrily and negatively about "trans people" in a general way, they are actually directing that anger at one group and that's grown men who are taking women's stuff and trampling all over women's rights.

Many posters have written very wise posts in the past about how the "trans umbrella" simply cannot cover everyone - on the one hand young and confused (possibly autistic) girls struggling with their place in the world, and on the other hand fully grown men with...let's say...other motives

Agreed

Dwimmer · 05/06/2025 17:45

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:18

This is what I'm worrying about in part too and I'm sorry your family member has had problems. I do wonder if my son fully realises the damage done to his body and what would happen if he decided he wanted to de- transition. You cannot reverse the effects of taking T for years. He was over the age of 25 when he started to transition ( imo the minimum age people should be) so it's not as if I really had a say in it apart from expressing some worries. The more I read the worse I feel. He seems to be happy so for him it seems to have worked out but I worry that with the tide turning so much now is he still going to feel comfortable with his choice in the future when things seem to be so anti trans now. I know it seems to be mostly aimed at trans women but even so I feel there's just not going to be an acceptance of him. Whatever happens the physical damage is done. I don't know if I'm better off reading this things or hiding my head in the sand! It's not as if I can do anything about it.

You use masculine language to refer to your daughter. Do you think that public health messages should reduce women to body parts (eg people with a cervix) in order not to upset your daughter by forcing her to confront reality, even though doing so is incredibly offensive to most women and excludes women without knowledge of their biology or without good English from understanding that public health message potentially leading to their death from missed screening?

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:46

Dwimmer · 05/06/2025 17:36

But if your child is not one of those harmful trans people

Anyone who demands other people uphold a fantasy and ignore reality is harmful.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't demand anything of anyone but yes I can see he must be harmful if he thinks he can be trans.

Dwimmer · 05/06/2025 17:47

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:46

I'm pretty sure he doesn't demand anything of anyone but yes I can see he must be harmful if he thinks he can be trans.

She has you describing her incorrectly. Who else does she demand that of?

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:49

Helleofabore · 05/06/2025 17:39

So you have a daughter with a transgender identity? Yet you personalise comments about mostly male transgender people and consider comments about male people who ignore female people’s boundaries and demand access to single sex provisions that your daughter needs to be general discussion about your daughter?

Or is your child male?

Do you expect any other person to make language accommodations for your child? If so, why?

You seem to be all too keen to find posters hateful from what I can see. I have not seen you contribute much except your own prejudiced view.

My child is a trans identified female. I don't expect anyone to make any language accomodations. I will stop contributing.

TheKeatingFive · 05/06/2025 17:53

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:18

This is what I'm worrying about in part too and I'm sorry your family member has had problems. I do wonder if my son fully realises the damage done to his body and what would happen if he decided he wanted to de- transition. You cannot reverse the effects of taking T for years. He was over the age of 25 when he started to transition ( imo the minimum age people should be) so it's not as if I really had a say in it apart from expressing some worries. The more I read the worse I feel. He seems to be happy so for him it seems to have worked out but I worry that with the tide turning so much now is he still going to feel comfortable with his choice in the future when things seem to be so anti trans now. I know it seems to be mostly aimed at trans women but even so I feel there's just not going to be an acceptance of him. Whatever happens the physical damage is done. I don't know if I'm better off reading this things or hiding my head in the sand! It's not as if I can do anything about it.

It's tough, isn't it?

If it's any consolation, my family member was younger when she transitioned. As you say, it was your child's decision - they were well above the age where you could have stopped them.

Who knows what the future holds? I guess the best thing you can do is make sure they're looking after their physical and mental health. It's not easy being a parent at the best of times, but this whole thing is a total minefield.

BackToLurk · 05/06/2025 17:57

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:26

Thanks, they are a full grown adult so it really is up to them how they live their life. But if course that doesn't stop me worrying.

Bayswater offer support for the parents of adult children

Helleofabore · 05/06/2025 18:00

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 17:49

My child is a trans identified female. I don't expect anyone to make any language accomodations. I will stop contributing.

Feel free to contribute whatever you like. But don't complain if you get push back when you post things like:

"Mumsnet will not accept that the majority of trans people are committed and genuine and therefore taking hormones and having surgeries! Instead they tend to think they're all dirty perverts lurking in toilets and changing rooms with the sole intent of molesting or at the very least perving on the opposite sex. I expect they think the same of trans men, I mean they must also be wanting to leer at men by those standards."

Because that was a false characterisation and as I said, seems to be you personalising comments about male people demanding access to single sex provisions, including those that should be for your daughter, and not anything to do with female people with transgender identities. I don't believe in all my time on FWR that I have seen a regular post any opinion that a female person with a transgender identity must be "all dirty perverts lurking in toilets and changing rooms with the sole intent of molesting or at the very least perving on the opposite sex." or "they must also be wanting to leer at men by those standards."

Because I also have not seen many posters make blanket generalisations about male people to that effect.

It is purely your choice what you post.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/06/2025 18:03

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 16:22

When there are such opposing statistics it's difficult to know who is right. Generally speaking I find that on here trans people seem to be despised. As the mother of a trans man, who has come to acceptance, i feel really depressed when I read a lot of the posts on here. Maybe I am wrong to be accepting when there's such constant negative comments. Is my child really a bad, perverted person? Who knows but it's quite horrible. Just saying how it feels to me, I know that doesn't matter.

There have been a few threads on here recently started by or involving trans men. They are very welcome here and I don't think anybody thinks they are perverts.

I see trans men as women with dysphoria and I feel very sorry for them. Most women have experienced some degree of discomfort with their female body but few of us feel so uncomfortable in our own skin that we try to live as men.

I can't say for sure how I would see a trans man in real life but on here behind a screen name they read as obviously female. They have an empathy for and kinship with women that trans women generally lack.

LibertyKnickers · 05/06/2025 19:15

The child's sex is fixed at conception. As with any complex system, there can be failures to complete, in this case incomplete development of a male or female phenotype alone one or other of the (only) two pathways. Sometimes this appears in external genitalia at birth; such people (a tiny percentage of all DSDs) are called "intersex". There are dozens of DSDs, some of which go unnoticed, except when trying to conceive/father a child, and sometimes not even then. Most DSDs are found in men. I have come across only two or three cases in the literature of partial development of primary sex characteristics of one sex along with complete development of the other; one was of a man had one normal testicle and internally a partially formed ovary (with eggs), fallopian tube, and uterus internally. There was no doubt he was a man: he fathered a child.

That's because trans and "intersex" are unrelated phenomena, which in turn is because sex and gender are not the same thing. As lots of people with DSDs will tell you. If you can be e.g. otherkin, agender, demi-girl, genderqueer, genderfluid, etc., but there are only two biological sex classes defined ultimately by the two types of gamete, something else must be going on. Moreover, inappropriate surgeries performed on intersex individuals, often as children, are one thing: inappropriate surgeries performed on people, sometimes as children, who "feel" they are the opposite sex—whatever that means—are quite another.

Seethlaw · 05/06/2025 19:42

Dwimmer · 05/06/2025 17:36

But if your child is not one of those harmful trans people

Anyone who demands other people uphold a fantasy and ignore reality is harmful.

True. But not all trans people make such demands.

logiccalls · 05/06/2025 20:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 22:07

Dwimmer · 05/06/2025 17:45

You use masculine language to refer to your daughter. Do you think that public health messages should reduce women to body parts (eg people with a cervix) in order not to upset your daughter by forcing her to confront reality, even though doing so is incredibly offensive to most women and excludes women without knowledge of their biology or without good English from understanding that public health message potentially leading to their death from missed screening?

What? Where have I said anything of the sort? I don't think anyone needs to do anything to avoid upsetting my child. I certainly don't think any public health message should be using any sort of weird language like you suggest. It would never enter my head to say things like people with a cervix rather than just say women!

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 22:13

Dwimmer · 05/06/2025 17:47

She has you describing her incorrectly. Who else does she demand that of?

My child doesn't 'demand' anything of me! Or anyone else, he's not that sort of person. He's very low key, quiet and calm. I decided, by myself, to call him 'he' after a period of time. It was never asked of me. I can do that if I choose to, it doesn't mean anyone else has to nor that he would expect it from anyone else. You're just assuming all trans people are the same because of some loud and vocal activists. There are plenty that are just normal respectful people.

WithSilverBells · 06/06/2025 00:07

With respect @BlueJeansAndMoonbeams , you seem a bit all over the place on this thread. Do you want to read back through your posts and try to explain a bit more clearly what exactly it is you are trying to say or ask?

Greyskybluesky · 06/06/2025 00:11

There are some valid issues raised on that thread though @BlueJeansAndMoonbeams

You can't just write off the whole thread as a pile on

Dwimmer · 06/06/2025 00:44

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 23:37

If you want an example of everyone piling on about trans people here's just one of many threads I've just read

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5342703-this-years-pride-month?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Had a quick read of that thread and if you think it is everyone piling on trans people then that can only be because you don’t think anyone else has any rights and are upset that they are saying ‘no’.

Dwimmer · 06/06/2025 00:45

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 22:13

My child doesn't 'demand' anything of me! Or anyone else, he's not that sort of person. He's very low key, quiet and calm. I decided, by myself, to call him 'he' after a period of time. It was never asked of me. I can do that if I choose to, it doesn't mean anyone else has to nor that he would expect it from anyone else. You're just assuming all trans people are the same because of some loud and vocal activists. There are plenty that are just normal respectful people.

Edited

Yet you are undermining the sex based language needed for women to access their rights.

Helleofabore · 06/06/2025 05:35

BlueJeansAndMoonbeams · 05/06/2025 23:37

If you want an example of everyone piling on about trans people here's just one of many threads I've just read

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5342703-this-years-pride-month?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

What are you describing as ‘piling onto’ trans people here?

The discussion about fetishists, the potential protests such as the topless protests of the very trans activists that you have said don’t represent trans people, the discussion about the attempt to force the labels of homosexual people open so that that now mean the very opposite to what they were originally established as and fought for ?

What is it about that thread that you are describing ?