NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #6

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Her legal costs seem to be covered. So we're supporting her dad's chosen charity.

Sandy is brave, not toxic.

That poster is lacking comprehension, or has extremely unclear writing skills, and that's being polite

Mate's with Beth? Who knows?

I think the big problem for DrU that arises because JR is representing both is that DrU presumably can't argue that all of his harassment occured because he was acting within the workplace policy?

Going back to Dr Searle, who I find mystifying, if a junior doctor came to me with a massively controversial issue like this, my first reaction would be to punt it to anyone and everyone I could think of that was more senior to me. And not take a single action unless I had been expressly advised to by HR.

Not send an email to 17 colleagues saying there'd been a hate incident.

Honestly the paperwork alone from something like this is not something I have time for in my v limited admin time. It's bad enough when you have to talk to them about not upsetting the cleaner, or washing up their mugs.

A problem with JR doing double representation is that the NHS will be footing the bill and Upton gets representation as long as his interests align with those of the NHS, but if they don't, JR withdraws and he needs to find his own representation.

Have a horrible feeling the disclosure is going to show that DU overegged the complaints later on - his interests and those of NHS Fife are then going to diverge and he will have serious problems.

So if during NCs cross examination of him, he tries to throw the NHS under the bus, will JR just ditch him?

I agree @AnnaMagnani it is an extraordinary thing to do in those circumstances. Why on earth do that without going straight to HR first, even if only to protect one's own back?

I agree, and yet it seems that maybe that was exactly what happened. Manager told Upton he could use the changing room. Another manager told Peggie she had to talk to him herself. NHS Fife seems to have set everyone up to fail

I don't think he's experienced enough to do this.

So far he's just parrotted trans rhetoric.

I doubt he'd have a clue about complaint management and investigations, risk registers, patient safety incidents, employment law etc.

All he can do is say NHS Fife and the BMA agreed with his hurty feels and he's too scared to go to work.

Spoliation. Spol - i - a - tion.

Good word. Not saying this is what happened, just came across this word in my investigations and am pleased with it.

It's more about altering a legal document than about not putting documents forward, but still... good word.

Just caught up.

And so pleased that I'm off work on Monday 😊

When I went through TT earlier, I thought NC said that ED and MSF (Michelle who went off sick) were doing the initial investigation then that was substituted for an investigation led by LC (Lottie?)

From what I can tell they just cover that day’s events? So won’t summarise until the end maybe?

Thanks NotAGentleReminder, it looks like I'll have to study things more carefully.

Upton may well have a substantial argument that NHS Fife's policies and handling of the CR matter failed BU's self and SP.

wrt the FTP allegations (if there are any), much might depend on what guidance BU received and from which parties. The timing of any such allegations (and guidance) may also be crucial to understand. If there are such allegations, they might indicate that BU might argue that they were acting on the guidance of others.

Perhaps any such matters were sui generis and sprang fully formed from BU's head.

Much may depend on whether there are auditable trails of communication around this and, if so, can they be recovered?

JR claims there are no mysteries that she cannot explain away.

Does Sandie have two separate claims against NHS Fife and Dr Upton? If she wins, does she only win against one of them or both? Who has to compensate her? Sorry IANAL

Vipers!

is this in honour of us or related to the #notallsnakes?

A trans person that has all their male parts is still, and always will be male. Never has and never will be female.

… well if Rosa Parks had parked herself on the access seat and refused to move on arrival of an ambulant disabled passenger…. 🤣

I didn't read the whole TT transcript so that bit might not be what actually happened...will have more of read to check!

Interesting. NC on LinkedIn, a couple of weeks ago, posted:

“Congratulations to all the new Silks today, but especially my colleagues Oliver Powell and Ben Bradley, and my opponent in Edinburgh next month Jane Russell”

53 likes including Maya Forstater and Michael Foran.

Jane Russell, who also has a LinkedIn profile did not like or comment, and yet, put her own self promotional post up a week after.

Do I suspect a lack of love lost?

Team NC whatever.

There's something very satisfying about Upton's whining all the live long day yesterday, his crying, being escorted to his car, I've never been spoken to like this, I burst into tears, I'm going to be attacked, I need a phalanx of people around me, contrasted with Cunningham's no nonsense, get down to the actual issue, where is all your shit that we were meant to see, why are you hiding this from us, cough up or else.

It's a microcosm of transgenderism. All about the feelz on one hand, and reality on the other.

Women fucking rule.

Isn't ED the line manager of SP? It's not good practice for a line manager to investigate a complaint about one of her own team.