My 14 year old daughter has been sharing school changing rooms, including swimming, with a male. The school never told me, or her. What would you do?

[SernieBanders]

I believe this to be a failure of safeguarding and a risk to every female in the school.

I do not believe the school can give consent in any way, all children are under the age of 16, so they cannot either.

The school in question has adopted the Brighton Trans Inclusion Toolkit which actively encourages males and females to share spaces, including sleeping, without any supervision. They also have unisex toilets.

For the record, I believe all gender questioning children should be given full, dignified support for their schooling. However their needs do not supersede safeguarding and dignity of all female pupils.

What would you do? What legislation, guidance, rules would you quote to them? Straight to governors? The police? What?

I suspect that if this kid has autism then he is not yet mature enough to realise the wider implications of what he is doing. The buck stops with the school on this one. Adults have allowed this situation to arise and by allowing this child to change with the girls they are disregarding the girls feelings and further entrenching the belief that this child has that they are the opposite sex. I’m afraid it is a lose lose situation and good on the OP for highlighting it.
i find it almost impossible to believe that a whole school of teachers, and presumably governors, have allowed this to happen. I don’t blame the parents in this situation because they may have been told that their child will commit suicide if they don’t transition (although this is not backed up by the stats) and the parents may be looking to the school for guidance which makes it even more shocking that they are not following Cass Report recommendations.
I imagine the teachers are afraid to speak up for fear of being called transphobic but I would hope that they can find their voices now - for everyone’s sake

"Personally I don't think that any schoolchild should ever have to undress in front of any other person, child or adult, of either sex. "

This is definetely a cultural thing, and it also changes.

I grew up in 1970s/80s Germany, and for us it was clear that we would change into sports gear at the school gym, not have our sports clothes on all day. We were also required to shower afterwards, and put on our normal clothes. For this the newly built school had single sex changing rooms with ensuite showers (non-cubicle, as it is still the norm in sports facilities and pools in Germany) and toilets (cubicles). Other schools also had those facilities, if not as modern.
I cannot remember any pupil or parents protesting against it back then, although some cut out the shower (I did too, when time was running out, but most took a quick shower). The teachers asked us to shower, but did not stand there and control us. They did watch that we kept to our respective changing rooms.

There has been a change away from this (the regulations haven't changed, but the society did). My 16year old niece (raised half in the UK, half in Germany) never changed in school and never showered at school, and she says that none of her female friends does (haven't asked about the boys).

I watched the ladies at my German gym, and it's only grown women past 25-30 who are showering there or use the women's sauna. No teen girls at all. It looks as if teen members are coming dressed for sport and going home afterwards to shower.

This is not a problem of males intruding or watching, btw, my niece says she also does not want women to look at her.

That thought crossed my mind. Why would ‘a decent kid’ choose to change in a gurus changing room. Even if he deemed himself a female, wouldn’t he feel embarrassed changing in front of girls, and begs the question, if not, why not? (Unless lives in a household of women).

Well - because at every turn, by every adult, their parents, their teachers, the police and MPs - they have been told they literally are a girl. And so therefore they do not think they are doing anything wrong.

the operation to lower females boundaries and tell males they can ignore them has worked. Completely.

see the nurse this week, and kids in most schools in the UK.

Yes @SernieBanders . Rolling this back will be painful as there's a generation of children been gaslit that women and girls aren't entitled to boundaries and that what was a niche adult male fetish is now a desirable life opportunity.

But until we get schools to experience the sort of public humiliation for their failure to safeguard children from this - as seen in the current NHS Fife case - too many educators will continue with their tone deaf professional arrogance. As previously suggested - schools and dodgy professionals are going to have to be dragged in front of the courts.

I was telling my husband about this and he asked why the kid didn't just change in a private room or toilet. I thought where do I start telling him about the " need" to be amongst women/ girls, the men who carry tampons to offer to women 🤷‍♀️

@SernieBanders Well , I feel I should write something longer when I am not shattered. It will be a long version of “men really are not women, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, I definitely don’t trust them through observation, recounted experiences (mainly from women) and having been a young one.”

I would genuinely be interested in this, Sernie. Maybe avoid the 'better/worse' framing though? Those judgements are made against a background of a society built mainly with men's needs and wants in mind

Tweet by Sharron Davis today:

https://x.com/sharrond62/status/1888557577119637628?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

I know for a fact swimming bodies across the Uk are having to deal with an epidemic & explosion of reported incidents of voyerism & sexual assault in mixed sex changing rooms. This IS a growing issue we can’t keep ignoring

I'm sure nobody could have possibly predicted this 🙄.

Marks and Spencer have been unable to silence reports of voyeurism in their mixed sex changing rooms:

https://x.com/WomensRightsNet/status/1883922279530389907

Why schools and organisations like M & S are deliberately enabling crimes like this defies belief.

Sigh 😒 indeed
........... and my perdiction is that the solution is something something we cant manage the risk lets close the changing rooms

I just can’t figure out what is setting my alarms off.

Is it not possible, @LondonPapa, the alarm might be discomfort with OP's recognition of the power imbalance between men & women, and the tendency of his/your sex to exploit it?

It's just a fact of life. Discussion about it brings accusations of 'man hating', which I can only suppose come from cognitive dissonance in those who don't want to think about it. You've not gone that far overboard, but it wouldn't be unusual to feel a little bit squeamish about someone confronting the dangers that men pose to young women - perhaps especially if that person's also a man.

I’m appalled by the homophobia in @JustAskingThisQ ’s disingenuous comments.

This has nothing to do with sexuality nor gender. It’s an issue of sex. Males of any gender presentation are not allowed to be around (female) women and girls in specific circumstances because they pose a risk.

98% of sex offenders are male. To protect the safety and dignity of women and girls, we exclude all males. Even the really nice ones.

That includes those with disabilities that would make offending near-impossible, those who are exclusively same sex attracted, those who would drop dead of shock if a girl kissed them, those who are just adorable poppets. All of them. Because the ones who do pose a risk look exactly like the nice ones, until…

It’s not about being seen by someone who might fancy you. It’s not about lesbians, gay lads or bisexual young people. It’s about sex.

MrsOvertonsWindow · Today 16:49

Marks and Spencer have been unable to silence reports of voyeurism in their mixed sex changing rooms:

Crikey, that's not far from me. We go in now and again for clothes for my daughter.

The school are putting the boy at risk too. Say one of the girls complains about his behaviour - the way he's looking at the girls, or the way he shows his body when he dresses and undresses. What happened? Indecent exposure? Voyeurism? (Both criminal offences) Or transphobic bullying by the girl? The school will have to decide. Unless she's already gone to the police of course.

The school are breaking the law, as well as all notions of common sense and decency by enabling this situation. No need to wait for 'something bad' to happen. It's already happening: they're violating the girls' rights to privacy and dignity, eroding their ability to set and maintain boundaries and failing in their duty to safeguard all the children.

I can't believe this wretched toolkit is still in circulation. I'm afraid it's going to need a legal case to finally get rid of the blasted thing. We had a similar situation which we thought we could resolve through sensible behind the scenes conversations. Total waste of time.

Good luck OP. Thank you for your concern, and your honesty about boys. I don't think there's anything in the least bit creepy about acknowledging that teenage boys are teenage boys.

I like to think it is a result of how we bring up and socialise teenage boys rather than Original Sin - but, as you say, we are where we are.

The town pool in Taunton ignores the old men walking around “community” areas naked during family swim.
They just say “it’s community”

The old naked freaks are the only ones not using the change cubicles.

Cannot decide if the old freaks want pool to themselves & are naked to scare away women and children or if they are actual perverts.
I did wonder why pool was so empty of families at family swim session. Never went back
but must say
the staff utterly spineless.

@foodfiend the issue is his mental reasoning is impossible to prove, he could be drying sweat from his genitals and he is allowed to look around a room he has been given permission to be in.

@Cerial
They let in random users without children into family swim time????
Who wants to bet on the computer check will find something

@Cerial that's grim. Is there someone to complain to other than the on-site staff? Is it a council facility?

It was clear that they thought I was the problem.
There’s another pool in town seems pervert free … with female staff.

They let in random users without children into family swim time????
Who wants to bet on the computer check will find something

A Local pool used to let random user in during primary send school sessions. Saw many of the aforementioned old men timing their swim to our session. Im not at the school now and I don't know if the pool still do or not now. A friend had a voyeur incident at the same pool that went to court.

The pool I use allow swimmers what ever is going on, unless the large pool is being used for lessons and they have filled the space.

They do close for school sessions, but again as the whole pool is being used.

Pools need swimmers and will close if they can't make money. But they've a duty to make sure it's safe.

One of my local pools with a unisex changing village set up had a guy arrested for sliding his phone under cubicles and filming teenagers getting changed.

It turned out the staff were already aware that this same guy was always around during school swimming lessons (huge pool, schools with older kids just get a lane cordoned off). Always happend to be in the unisex showers at the same time as the school kids. But presumably as he had every right to be at the pool staff felt unable to challenge him.

When police investigated him they found he was the owner of a soft play centre and had rigged the women's loos with cameras to film mums and really young kids.

It just demonstrates that safeguarding is partly about the design: the unisex showers and changing gave the paedophile easy opportunity. As did being a boss of a business for small children.

And also that it is imperative that employees feel able to report concerns even if management culture is dismissive. I've been been lucky to have attended excellent safeguarding training but I know it can be quite "tick box" in some organisations. Clearly the lifeguards at the pool felt unable to share their concerns. One wonders how many employees at the soft play had any idea their own boss was the threat.

Off topic - sorry OP but astounded to hear this on the radio just now about an U12 girls football team in York challenged by parents because a girl with short hair came on and scored - the implication being that she must be a boy. Not a one off according to the coach. Unbelievable that parents have this attitude In 2025.
I had short hair in the 80s and 90s - never once did anyone accuse me of being a boy. Poor kids nowadays 😞

In the 80s and 90s no on was letting boys who say they are girls play on the girls' team.

There were very few girls football teams in the 1980s anyway.