NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #5

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thank you all, especially @nauticant , for the new thread.

Just visiting briefly from the midst of Thread 3 to thank all commentators, and the live-posters in particular. It's a lot to take in even after having followed a few of these, and I'm trying to follow the tweets too, so am lagging a bit! (also slowed down considerably by recent encounters with mimophants and Puddledub, which demanded instant googling). Ah, well, leaving the giddy present now to travel back into the dark annals of #3 again. May perhaps return back to the future at some point (certainly haven't a hope in hell of catching up in real time - got distracted writing this & 9 more posts have appeared!)

Thanks for the new thread. Let's see if he he turns up tomorrow.

I hope I'm wrong but tomorrow I suspect he might 'do a Hugh' as it's known in our house ie. bottle it when expected to face up to the consequences of his own actions and go into hiding claiming mental health issues.

Just imagine if rape survivors were given the support and leeway this 6 foot something former rugby player is being given. It's almost like women might get some convictions if people listened to us.

I just went out to drop and collect from various sports and came back to a new thread AND over £2k for Sandie's dad.

I googled the Society and it's based at the Royal College of Physicians in Edinburgh so this huge surge in donations will spread the word and have a very useful peaking effect there, as well as hopefully showing the family how many people appreciate and acknowledge their bravery in such a hell storm.

Quite well alright ... and the photographs (with helpful caption) tell the story better than a thousand words. Sunlight!

1. Do some trans women think feminine accessories such as dangly earrings act as some kind of perception filter, like Clark Kent’s spectacles?

Yes. A pair of dangly earrings is supposed to act as a signal that the obvious bloke in front of you is, in fact, a woman. Same applies to dresses, bow hair clips, swishy hair, nail varnish, lipstick and acrylic nails. Only one accessory is necessary. Refusal to read a single-accessorised bloke as a woman is bigotry.

It's up to £2400 now I posted it on X too. I hope it takes off there.

I do appreciate that having to deal with menstrual leaking in the changing room at work, knowing that a male colleague was using the changing room, added to the discomfort SP was already feeling because of his presence. But it really makes me cross that women are expected to justify their reasons for not wanting men in the women's facilities, by disclosing very personal information like this, or history of assault, or their religious beliefs. Does it make a woman's discomfort with men in their changing room any less valid if none of these reasons apply to her?

YES!

Thank you @nauticant for this and all the other threads. I've shuffled my meetings tomorrow to maximise my Naomi time. Should have bought Tunnocks but a Borders selection will have to do.

While driving around I was mulling over much of today's absolute shitshow.

It occured to me that nearly everyone that DU has sought advice/support/attention/validation from is a woman. I'm not sure he's name dropped a single male in the way he has referred to multiple female colleagues by name and inferred close personal relationships or high degrees of support from.

Having worked in EDs and Emergency Care for decades I can state that the workforce is often more male than in other areas of care especially among the nurses - it is usually one of the few departments where male nurses are visible in much higher ratios than standard wards. There are usually more porters, security staff etc who also tend to be male.

I may have been forced to sleep as I was being pinned down by a very snuggly cat for two hours yes!

Checking in. I can't believe NHS Fife can't read the room on this.

This bit either indicates they don't get it, or that they really do (and possibly are one of us...)

"Giving evidence on the fourth day of the tribunal in Dundee, Dr Upton said he uses the pronouns she/her. He began gender transition in January 2022"

Thank you @Bannedontherun

Thanks for the new thread, just checking in. Today has been rage inducing and I suspect, like others, Dr U will be a no show tomorrow.

Sandie’s daughter has commented on X to thank everyone for donating to her granddad’s fundraiser. I really hope that knowing how much support they have is of comfort to them.

I suspect so too @GailBlancheViola. The consolation I think is that it seems NC will have a lot to work with from what was said today, there were certainly eyebrow raising moments.

Is anyone calling the time tomorrow that we find out the Good Doctor has tragically been forced to take the day off?

Baggsies 10:23

Trying to catch up on these threads - as with other similar threads, I am always deeply impressed at the thoughtful analysis by other posters. It's always stark how few TRA's you see on these threads as well - too difficult to bullshite in real time without a crib sheet I suppose.

As other pp's have said, it's not enough for the creepy af man to be using female changing spaces but the fact he decided to report women for not using the changing room while he was in there just solidifies what has been clear for ages - entitled, creepy men are determined to force women to undress in front of them and to be forced to see males undress. It's just validation for them, pure and simple.

I should be surprised a NHS Board in my country is OK with this horrendous misogyny but honestly, it doesn't even surprise me anymore.

And the poor wee lamb isn't happy that people are discussing his creepiness. Wee shame.

Yes, this occurred to me too. Every single person he has mentioned as supporting him - consultant, colleague, HR person, work buddy, family member - is a woman. It's all a bit 'us girls' isn't it.

Great username by the way.😂

10.17 am.

Other thoughts were how it will land with the panel and judge to refer to oneself "as a woman" on more than one occasion while also staring that you only came out a year prior.

Even those not so enraged as the rest of us re all this nonsense must surely raise an eyebrow at a grown man who has gone through school, adolescence and university as a male and has lived less than 12 months in this new "identity" describing how he mansplained his womanly credentials to an actual woman twice his age and a million times how life and work experience? Surely?

Each time he reported how he'd put her in her place by stating, "as a woman...." Was like nails on a blackboard to me.