Trump announces executive order that says legally there are only 2 genders (hmmm did he mis-speak and meant sex?)

[IwantToRetire]

Well this will add to the confusion.

Have just heard him use the word gender, even though earlier news reports had said he would say only 2 sexes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

Critical race theory is a particular lens to talk about race, a highly theoretical and controversial lens originating in universities that is wholly and utterly inappropriate for children.

One of the tactics that has been used frequently by I'd pol types in this is to convince people that ideas like CRT just mean "talking about racism" and are, and have always been, the only way to be non-racist.

It's not, it never has been, and it's not even particularly popular among non-white Americans.

Are you hearing the other side? Or is it only people who don’t agree with you who appear to out of control of their emotions?

500 women compete in a hypothetical marathon. Of those 500 "women" three are males. The male "women" constitute 0.6% of the competitors. Less than 1%.
The three males take 1st 2nd and 3rd places. On the winners' podium it's the three males and no women.
you : "Why are you concerned by such a tiny percentage of males in the race?"

Oh my gosh, thank you for saying this.

I find this the most bizarre element of the whole thing really, in a way more so than the gender stuff, at least that, I feel I can see how that emerged.

I used to very much identify with the economic left. Not the big state social intervention left, the good jobs strong communities, protecting workers, localism/conservation, cooperative industry, left.

Of course there have always been the big state people, but when suddenly people screaming about how the left is about supporting globalism, free trade, and control of economic policy by international trade organizations, my eyes nearly popped out of my head.

Increasingly I think it's not just that elements of the left and right have shifted, they actually seem to have substantially flipped, on basic issues. People who are old school leftists aren't supporting the right now because things have become muddled, it's because that's where you find the policies they have always supported.

I think I’ve outlined earlier that I don’t agree with transpeople in women’s sports or in women’s private spaces. yet I’m being accused of “not hearing the other side” 🤷‍♀️

what I’ve said is that if that’s all it was about you could make targeted legislation to end these practices. That’s not what trump has done. He’s launched an attack on the very existence of the trans community. Much like it seems several people on here want.

what would be the ideal way for you for Trans people to exist? How would you suggest for them to be part of society without discrimination and persecution? Can you see that at all or is it rather, as trump thinks, that they shouldn’t exist at all?

Another of Trump's EOs made a recommendation for government buildings to be in traditional architectural styles.

If every person you don't like is Hitler, and the things they like are all fascist, you are going to lose the war of ideas because you'll have abandoned all the worthwhile things like beautiful architecture to your enemies. The more people grumble about Trump being a Nazi and this executive order being fascist, the more people see classical architecture in general as fascist, the more people see beauty as a fascist ideal, and the more people will be drawn to fascism because you've made it beautiful.

The idea that we need to pick sides and subject ourselves to purity tests on every issue is adolescent nonsense. Childlike in its naivety.

Sex is real, gender is un-provalble guff. If the Left abandons reality, then reality becomes an ideal of the Right and people will follow. If the modern Left had a sane take on this issue it wouldn't be a polarising issue.

Tump has been the most popular Republican president among "people of colour" since Nixon. He has record support from both black and Hispanic voters.

first of all, the left is a lot of thing. Lots of left wing groups including the Labour party and all major European left wing parities consider free trade (with restrictions and regulations) a very positive thing. Nothing weird in that. Free trade helps prevent international conflicts as well, as you’d recall that was part of the original idea of the EU - we won’t go to wars with people we trade with. Yes, some far left fractions have been anti-globalization traditionally but none of the Northern European left has been, and personally I’ve never subscribed to that view. You can be left wing without being a Marxist, you know.

on manufacturing in the US, I don’t think it’s per se a bad thing, but it is a and thing if it’s going to happens, as Trump envisions, as part of increasing isolationism and trade wars.

Record for a party who has very bad records with these groups. Most people of colour still vote democrat

Yes.
Another example free speech. There are so many historical examples going back for so long where the conservative/right wing view was pro censorship. Now that has flipped completely. The left fought tooth and nail for free speech back then. Now the right stand for free speech and the left wants censorship. It's very strange for to someone who remembers how things used to be :

ACLU's Ira Glasser defense of the rights of neo-Nazis to rally in the Chicago suburb of Skokie, Illinois in the 1970s.

Mary Whitehouse in the UK triyng to censor anything on UK TV that she found offensive.

Senator Joe Lieberman in 1993 Saying He Would Like To Ban Video Games

Because only traditional architecture is beautiful? 😅 if that isn’t a reactionary view don’t know what is

Since you’re asking I’d say we have made an error as a society and should have progressed to include all types of representation in each sex class rather than creating gender ideology

So no idea of ‘transition’ just people with immutable sex presenting as they wish

The male sex class in particular needs to be more accommodating

I agree that the left has gone too far on their censorship. So has the right. As Margaret Atwood has said, in the end there will only be books left about cooking with parsley

leftorrightnow what would be the ideal way for you for Trans people to exist? How would you suggest for them to be part of society without discrimination and persecution?

There you go, around on your circular track again! You have failed to show how trans people are subject to 'discrimination and persecution', in fact they have somehow wielded extraordinary and disproportionate power to effect changes in the law, medicine, education, the media, language etc.

But round and round you go, never stopping to take on board anything that shakes your preconceptions.

@leftorrightnow

I think I’ve outlined earlier that I don’t agree with transpeople in women’s sports or in women’s private spaces. yet I’m being accused of “not hearing the other side” 🤷‍♀️
what I’ve said is that if that’s all it was about you could make targeted legislation to end these practices.

How without first acknowledging somewhere in law that transwomen are male? Otherwise you are just discriminating against some women without really explaining why.

Que? Of course by acknowledging transpeople as their own category

https://www.statista.com/statistics/624011/transgender-hate-crimes-in-england-and-wales-by-offence-type/#:~:text=Number%20of%20transgender%20hate%20crimes%20in%20England%20and%20Wales%202011%2D2024&text=The%20number%20of%20hate%20crimes,4%2C780%20offences%20in%202023%2F24.

They aren't a marginalised group. They have managed, in 10 years to infiltrate public bodies almost immediately and gain huge rights and concessions , rights women spent decades fighting for. Almost as if the people who run these institutions- middle class, middle aged White privileged men recognise something in them that they can't quite get when it comes to women. I wonder what it is?

Well I can only agree w that, but since we’re not seeing any signs of a society with less rigid gender roles and characteristics emerging any time soon, what do we do to protect the transgender people right now?

You’re suggesting legislation that restricts access of members of one sex to the services, spaces and/or sports of the other. Are you suggesting acknowledging them as a third sex? It’s unclear what you’re acknowledging them as which would restrict access

Terrible reading comprehension. I see you're keen to continue acting as the pigeon in this chess game.

We can’t get closer to this better society by continually progressing gender ideology

Instead people need to focus their attention on the barrier - the male sex class. Not women and girls.

Maybe start talking to men about what they can do

The importance you attach to the trans issue shows a lack of perspective. It’s completely out if proportion to it’s (sic) significance in the real world

I wonder which sex it is quite comfortable with the entire denial of the needs of female biology. Or that biology even exists!

And not only which sex is disadvantaged by it but which sex has the power to do it.

They aren't a marginalised group. They have managed, in 10 years to infiltrate public bodies almost immediately and gain huge rights and concessions

Quite. When women are being prevented, across the board, from anything female only, including language, it takes some fucked up thinking to think that the people who are doing it are the ones who are marginalised!!

It's risible. And, I have to say, a little bit weird

In case you haven't noticed this is the board for discussions around sex and gender and women's rights issues more generally. Trans ideology runs counter to the dignity and integrity of women and girls ,and it puts children in extremely compromised situations in which they are vulnerable to medications and surgeries that will do damage to their bodies. Many of us are also parents.... and some are professionals who work with children.

That sounds like pre-manufactured conspiracy theory. It ticks all of the boxes.

Anyone who has a fundamental issue with trans ideology is right wing, believes in rigid gender roles, is manipulated by Russia, is Hitler adjacent, denies climate change and so on........

As for "classist supremacist" views....I was brought up in a working class family, and have been politicallly engaged since my early teens. My father was a union shop steward and nurtured my political instinct. I set up my first women's group at college, age 16, and then i helped to set up a peace camp outside of an American nuclear base. I lived on a grass verge for two years in a tent.

I've been on every left wing protest march going; have been vegetarian since I was 16. I've lived in squats and marched against 'the city'. I've been a Labour party member. You, on the otherhand appear to know very little, apart from your 'progressive script', and your level of discussion relies on stereotypes, misinformation and the usual round of cliches.

You claim you care about women's rights, yet you cannot even correctly identify what a woman is - other than some vague set of feelings and/or imaginings utterly detached from reality. I imagine you as being in your early thirties, and most likley without children.....and certainly with far less experience than many of us here.