Trump announces executive order that says legally there are only 2 genders (hmmm did he mis-speak and meant sex?)

[IwantToRetire]

Well this will add to the confusion.

Have just heard him use the word gender, even though earlier news reports had said he would say only 2 sexes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

I am also a parent. Somehow, my kids being molested by a trans person or wanting to be transgender (fine if they do) is pretty low on my list of worries.

Anyone who has a fundamental issue with trans ideology is right wing, believes in rigid gender roles, is manipulated by Russia, is Hitler adjacent, denies climate change and so on........

I was taking about Trump who is all the above, expect Hitler adjacent, don’t recall having accused him or anyone else of that.

Top posting.

Yes I am suggesting acknowledging them as a third sex

All you have done has nothing to do with this conversation and views on transgender people. You may have done all that and still be against transgender rights, that’s not a contradiction in terms. Clearly.

what I have done in my personal life is irrelevant to this conversation. As it happens I’ve done a ton of volunteering and left wing activism, but as this is an anonymous forum there’s no way I (or you for that matter) can prove that’s true. So let’s stick to the conversation at hand.

Your grasp of the issue is essentially flawed, and you have a tendency to make hyperbolic, over-inflated and ill thought through comments and accusations. I'm used to better. I used to teach critical thinking at A-level. Alas, the ability to think critically and deconstruct arguments is sadly lacking in many these days...especially in those who rely entirely on social media for their political education.

Yes I am suggesting acknowledging them as a third sex

Fine, you crack on with that. They aren't though.

We’re not going to use the term third sex which is too removed from basic fact

I'd never heard the phrase "classist supremacist" before.
Apparently it's ok to join words together any old way. I wonder what it means.

I've seen the word reactionary used a lot in this thread. That's always a dead giveaway word for me. I know I can safely ignore all the words around it and lose nothing of worth.

They're not a third sex, though, are they? They're just people who - for reasons - want to use opposite sex facilities or at least not use facilities for their own sex.
And surely you would need to acknowledge male and female transpeople as two additional sexes. At least.
Unworkable, not least because it starts with a lie. Much better to have protection against discrimination on the basis of belief, or gender nonconformity rather than pretend that transpeople form additional sex categories.

You're talking to the wrong woman.

Of the sex class which produces... medium sized gametes? Speggs?

Why lie?

For someone big on the science of climate change you curiously seem to be a science denier when it comes to biology.

'Third sexes' and 'genders' have traditionally been the way some societies have accommodated same sex attracted and 'feminine' men; and provided a way for other men to meet with them for sex - without offending their society's taboo on homosexuality.

Neither have I...... and I used to teach Sociology.

You seem to have some kind of inhibition that involves not being able to comprehend posts which are explaining the fundamental disagreements people have with trans ideology.

You're quite keen to suggest the motivations and backgrounds of others, but not so keen when it comes to your own. You don't need 'BBC verify' or 'fact check' to discuss issues openly and honestly.

Speggs :)
Should you choose, you can take pleasure from knowing that at least one person - me - is now in a state of overactive imagination and chuckling uncontrollably at imagining what Speggs are and how they work.
Currently there's these giant eggs with little spirally thrashing outboard motors attached, scooting all over the place uncontrollably, bullying everything else they bash into contact with.
Actually sounds a bit like Trans Activists when you think about it.

I will indeed take pleasure from that!

I think that people like Christopher Lasch, who were predicting this flip decades ago, have turned out to be prophetic.

It's not just that issues flip, but whole demographics flip. In this case it's the gentrification of the left, and society polarising around educational credentials, that's probably the big driver. You occasionally see the class work here, where someone will turn up who's very invested in being left wing, and that takes the form of deferring to credentialed experts and bemoaning "populism". You see it in a much cruder form on US Democrat subreddits, where it's very common for posters to boast about their degrees and describe GOP voters as inbred yokels.

Those Democrats imagine that they're advocating on behalf of the working class, and then they're bemused that they lost the working class vote to a guy who lives in a golden tower.

It's worth checking out Patrick Ruffini's book Party of the People for hard data on this. Ruffini is an interesting guy - a Republican pollster who doesn't like Trump, who thought Trump would go down to a landslide defeat in 2016, then figured out that maybe the crass game show host had intuited something about the electorate that he hadn't seen.

It's important because the most lasting Democratic advantage for almost 200 years, since Martin Van Buren founded the party to support Andrew Jackson's presidential campaign, was its brand as the party of the little guy opposing the elites. That's what's flipped.

What was the single Trumpiest ethnic group in the November election? Not white voters, but Native Americans. Not many of them work in prestige graduate professions. They live in unfashionable places and work in jobs like construction or plumbing.

None of us think Trump is an intellectual, but he's not stupid and he can spot an underserved market. And he's got people like Vance who does seem to understand the realigment and wants to lean into it. One thing to watch will be the nomination of Lori Chavez-DeRemer as labour secretary. She's been one of the handful of consistently pro-union Republicans in Congress, very close to the Teamsters, and the old-school Reaganite conservatives hate her nomination.

And for the Democrats, see also UK Labour, whose Camden based leadership gives off a strong vibe of "We don't really like these low-status Red Wall voters. Here, Nigel, you have them."

Still no evidence of 'persecution'.

Sadly, many groups in society experience hate crimes, or to be more accurate: report to the police incidents which are 'perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice'.
Hate crimes against women are not recorded, as sex is not considered a 'personal characteristic' in the official definition of hate crime. However, the fact that about 100 women were murdered by men in the UK in 2023-24 gives an idea of the scale of hate crimes against women.

Unacceptable thought all recorded hate crime incidents are, all 140,000 or so of them in the past year, they don't add up to the level of systemic abuse and maltreatment which would constitute persecution; and they are being dutifully recorded by the police, not perpetrated by the police, which is more common in cases of literal persecution.

Ok, so now we're getting somewhere. In your legislative framework then all transpeople belong to this third sex. Some of those transpeople, in your words, dress like women some don't. Regardless of that they are this third sex and it is membership of this third sex that allows their exclusion from women's spaces. That seems a little hard on the peop!e most of us would consider females with a trans identity, but there we go that's your system. Sounds much more transphobic than only excluding males from women's spaces and sports tbh.

Excellent comment

What? females with a trans identity would of course still be allowed to use female spaces.

There is no need, in most cases, for defining who is allowed to use third spaces anyways. You have spaces for men, spaces for women, and spaces for people who ae not clearly defined as either OR anybody who would simply LIKE to use that space. Just as many able bodied people use disabled loos if there is no que. Doesn't have to be complicated.

And he's got people like Vance who does seem to understand the realigment and wants to lean into it.

He does. It's worth listening to his interview with Joe Rogan to see how much he sees these things as issues.

Well, not always, therewas a time when black Americans tended to vote Republican.

The Hispanic community is polling about half and half these days. And the black vote has been shifting in much the same way the Hispanic vote did at first, and it's been picking up momentum. Enough that Obama thought it was a good idea to chastise them.

The fact is there has always been a black conservatives faction and they are growing, not just in numbers but culturally, in terms of influence.

Don't you wonder why it is that these groups are changing their voting, right at a time when the white middle classes are accusing the Republicans of being white supremacists?