Trump announces executive order that says legally there are only 2 genders (hmmm did he mis-speak and meant sex?)

[IwantToRetire]

Well this will add to the confusion.

Have just heard him use the word gender, even though earlier news reports had said he would say only 2 sexes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

I don't actually care if they say they are trans or not.

I think in that case it's an issue of being a perverted asshole.

If you can't bend over without flashing children, don't be around children.

Again, I ask you not be rude to me.

This is a very complex issue and is clear by this discussion so " getting my head around this " is complicated.

For example when it comes to his place of work. People see him as a man and treat him as a man but know he is trans.

Should they start addressing him as female?

Could he lose his job?

These are complex issues.

But he is trans though. That is the identity he claimed.

So what about the other three transwomen I named? I see no difference between the other three men and creepy teacher guy. They are all men claiming womanhood.

How am I supposed to tell which transwomen truly think they are women, which transwomen are actually perverted men and which are AGPs?

I don't think it matters.

I think if we pass laws protecting women only spaces then it doesn't really matter what these people do.

They can wear and act however they like but they can't access protected spaces.

And when it comes to schools they need to dress and act accordingly.

I think that in itself would eliminate a big part of the problem.

So the only way to liberate women from oppression by men is to let men pretend to be women and be fully treated as such?

I'm sorry I've got to ask when those same laws prevent your partner from accessing men's protected spaces is your response going to be I don't think it matters now what shall we have for tea?

I think it is going to take time to reconcile......but the main and most important point is that legally we are one sex or the other and that certain types of service, sporting category or facility are predicated on sex not on 'gender identity'. Sex will be recorded correctly on passports and other official documents.

Sorry I'm not understanding your point?

What men only spaces are trans men trying to access? But yes I'd agree. I'm very pro unisex spaces personally.

Is that an issue?

Except In politics doesn’t work that way. You have one vote. This is going to pull the whole culture towards conservative gender roles. You may like what it’s going to to on trans issues, but that’s like saying it’s a good idea to throw a nuclear bomb on a neighboring village to get rid of one person you don’t like there.

what does treating someone as a man mean in practice? Aside from pronoun use (which I’ll be honest doesn’t actually come up in practise that often as usually we are talking to our colleagues rather than about them).

I don’t think I treat my male and female colleagues differently. They just are my colleagues.

i would find it uncomfortable if a trans women used the female toilet or claimed a women’s award/ put them forwards to represent the women in the office but other than that I couldn’t really care less how they presented themselves and would just treat them as a colleague.

There is literally nothing more wedded to conservative gender roles than saying boys that play with dolls need to be sterilised and have their penis cut off.

Trans is conservative sex stereotypes on steroids.

Unless another Yank is lurking on this thread, I'm the only one who had a vote in the 2024 US election.

And it's never all or nothing in politics. No one agrees with absolutely everything a candidate says, and neither is voting for them a commitment to supporting anything they might do in the future.

Just off the top of my head Changing rooms, toilets, prisons, gay saunas...

I have no issue with unisex spaces as long as they are in addition to women only and men only spaces.

You do remember all the celebrity 'endorsements of KH saying things like "Is she perfect? No. But no-one is..." Are you saying that the people who voted for KH did so because they were 100% everything she stood for? Because even her supporters were saying that she was problematic. Where is the difference between saying "KH is the lesser of two evils" and "Trump is an arsehole but he's right on this"?

Well, everyone who voted for him gave him free rein to put through his policies for the next four years. That’s how representative democracy works. The politicians you vote for will try to do everything they said they would in their campaign. Not just the bits you like. Don’t get to sign a little disclaimer on your vote saying this is only a vote for part of what you stand for. So if you support trump you have to be aware you’ve supported everything he does. Of course there’s never a candidate where you agree with everything they stand for.

and that’s exactly my point!

even if you think trump is good on trans rights, you’re supporting his overall regressive and misogynistic platform with your vote (Or your cheerleading)

I think the point she is making ( correct me if I'm wrong) is that nothing happens in a vacuum.

And just as we see has happened with some trans women invading women's sports and spaces, this has also proceeded and will precede
Women's rights.

In a country were women are already dying due to miscarriages and women's salaries are still lower, nevermind the sheer amount of single moms living below the poverty line, there is a strong and present issue of women's lives not counting.

This executive order is not extremely clear and it's important to recognize where the US and Trump stands on women.

Is it a good thing to protect women? Absolutely!

Is a man who sexually assaults women really concerned about women? I doubt it.

It's important to look at what the other hand is doing.

A lot of executive orders were passed yesterday.

The USA has left the Paris convention on Climate Change, the WHO, no one is allowed to work from home, 1500 people have been pardoned for storming Capital Hill.

I'm not disputing the fact passing laws protecting women's only spaces shouldn't happen, I'm saying this one issue is a piece of a puzzle that we still don't fully understand what the end game is.

We don't even know what this means in practical terms.

So while Trump may have done something many agree with, it's incredibly premature to celebrate him as protecting women in my opinion.

I was 6 the first time a man " grabbed me by the pussy. "

I don't believe Trump gives a shit about women.

I have no problem with unisex spaces and keeping men and women separate as well.

We are in agreement.

Women have been losing their jobs for a while now for refusing to pretend that you can change sex. Women across the world have been losing out on sporting awards and opportunities. Women in prisons are having to share confined space with rapists. Did you spare a thought for any of these women at all?

The law needs to be firmly based on reality so that these injustices no longer happen. From that position of reality you can begin to offer protections for those people who say they are transgender.

What doesn’t work is writing lies into laws and expecting others to go along with it. Trump’s executive order is a reset back to reality.

If TRAs had any sense they will start to campaign for third spaces, third sporting events, separate safe accommodation for vulnerable men (including TW and gay men) in the male estate. The best thing for those who identify as trans would be to come to terms with the fact that they cannot bully the rest of society into pretending any more and come back into the real world.

And that male people AKA men should keep out of women's spaces and female people AKA women should keep out of men's spaces, where biological sex matters?

And that any woman or man using those spaces legitimately should have the right to challenge those who transgress that rule and to receive support in doing so?

And that anyone happy to share spaces with the opposite sex should use the additional unisex spaces?

Agreed?

I guess we will see how this actually unfolds.

I tend to believe the devil's in the details.

And just as the left swung too far left, the right is going in the same direction and too far right is just as scary.

Plus it will just continue to swing back and forth at more staggering lengths if there is no one fighting for moderates.

I think it's a very scary time to be a woman in America and I personally don't believe Trump is interested in protecting them at all.

I don't believe Trump gives a shit about women.

If he only signed this EO because he views it as a vote winner I’m not sure it matters that much. The Democrats who claim to give a shit about women didn’t care enough to stop any of this.

Absolutely.

I have never changed my opinion on this.

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 I agree Trump doesn’t care about women. The announcement in question was a great side effect of a rough situation.

Re your partner, personally I think certain services are sex specific, or where sex matters. Outside of those I wouldn’t be too bothered about your partner’s identity.
The situations I care about the sex of someone else are when I’m vulnerable- nurse, gynaecology, breast scan, prison, changing room, toilet…
Any other time then I won’t be wondering or at least I won’t care about the answer.

Does that help? As for being denied testosterone, in the uk people have no trouble getting hold of it, despite restrictions. I’m sure a black market will pop up to fill the gap. Indeed if insurance is involved, I’d expect that to ensure that appropriate treatment is available- but I’m not well informed about us health arrangements.

Of course I have.

I have clearly stated many times I support women. I'm a firm feminist. I believe in women only spaces.

I have fought hard to protect them.

That doesn't preclude me from being very nervous about what this actually means for trans people who have already transitioned.

I'm very concerned for them and confused about what this will actually mean.

I can care about both issues and I do.

An 18 yo died the same day as her baby shower because she started having a miscarriage and two hospitals refused to treat her.

She died of sepsis. She apparently said she never thought the abortion ban would affect her and she was someone who supported it.

Those things scare me. It scares me that Trump is in power and this one issue might seem like a win, but voting for him for this while ignoring all the other things he stands for harms women in the long run.

It's because I'm a feminist that I will never support Trump.

It's because I'm a sexual abuse survivor I will never support Trump.

And it's because of how far boundaries have been pushed on both sides of the isle I am concerned about how far these things will go especially when policies are not clear.

For example when it comes to his place of work. People see him as a man and treat him as a man but know he is trans.

Should they start addressing him as female?

They should be able to do so without sanction, yes. It's a question of freedom of belief. Anyone who wants to go along with the gender identity can do so, but we can opt out.