Trump announces executive order that says legally there are only 2 genders (hmmm did he mis-speak and meant sex?)

[IwantToRetire]

Well this will add to the confusion.

Have just heard him use the word gender, even though earlier news reports had said he would say only 2 sexes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

Don’t feign ignorance. You know some - many - trans people have and want hormone therapy

I don't think what they "want" is necessarily a priority. They'll have to pay for their wrong sex hormones themselves. It's not like everyone else has everything they want, is it?

To be honest......I think some of these issues around 'gender' stem from the fact that much of contemporary feminism is really down on being female; perceiving being female only through the lens of oppression; and that the worst thing that could happen to a woman is to become a mother. Lots of young women wanting to reject being female at all.....and claiming male identities, or so-called 'non binary' identities.

Most of us here support a woman's right to choose, and many have had terminations ourselves - yet at the same time there is something really quite distasteful about some of the abortion protests and gatherings, or as Mary Harrington noted, the waving of banners which state " parsites don't have rights".

It can often seem as if younger women have been socialised to reject motherhood and the notion of the family unit altogether.......and it can also seem a strange sort of feminism which wants to reject being female or doing things associated with being female. I think that is what prompted JD Vance to make the " childless cat ladies" comment. Not that he thinks women should only be wives and mothers ( his own wife has a career and he was brought up by a tough, self sufficient grandmother) but that most women are mothers, or want to have children, and that in many instances the family is the best place in which to bring them up.

Women's rights and women's issues do not just revolve around access to abortion. This seemed to be the only 'women's issue' that Kamala Harris wanted to talk about.

but you’re so blinded by transphobia you can’t see that

it never takes long for the mask to slip

"Biology has nothing to do with being a man or woman, it's about how you feel".

"In order to be a man/woman I must make major biological changes to my body".

I think you may have missed my question because your answer didn't address it.

the right to life saving hormone therapy
Can you explain where this right comes from please?

At least Brexit was a democratic outcome. We were given an opportunity to vote.

With regards to the whether a philosophical belief that some men are really women because that's what they really want should have upended women's rights, not so much.

The left has lost their way so badly here. And yet they're still on these threads claiming that believing otherwise is 'right wing' and undemocratic.

At this point it is utterly baffling.

He may be about to screw American women so much that they are all back to being bare footed pregnant and tied to the kitchen sink. And that is horrifying.

Thankfully (well not really) I'll only be 2 of the 3, the pregnancy is out due to that pesky intersex (yes aware it's the wrong term I'm being flippant).

Thing is it won't happen not with the world watching. Not with a distinct category of women. Not when you can't hold up stats showing women doing brilliantly because your data is false. It's harder to cut funder when suddenly you get a jump in the percentage of a category of people using a service (planned parentage). Now we have a distinct category it's so much easier to point everything else out. Our companies gender pay gap reduced massively, are we paying women more - No. 2 top bosses visited Malaga and distorted the figures. Women can now point out truthful stats. That's worth it's weight in gold, it gives a solid foundation to fight from.

Yep it's obvious this is a TRA scolding.

"Childless cat ladies" is a twattish comment, but it's no more sexist than how many soi disant "progressive" men talk about women who want sex based protections and spaces.

Having something and wanting something is not the same as needing something.

A man has to do no more than state he is a woman, and a woman has to do no more than state she is a man for them to be trans.

At least that is what the likes of Stonewall have been saying for years.

A TRA refusing to answer a direct question.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

leftorrightnow

so we have established you disagree with men in women's prisons, you disagree with men in women's sport.

We've also established that there is no automatic right to hormones.

What's left?

What else are you so worried about in terms of trans rights?

@Datun the problem is have they acknowledged transwomen are men? Is agreeing men shouldn't be in women's prisons just sophistry

How can he be totally against women's rights when he elevated his own daughter to such a high level of trust... or when he has appointed women into positions in his government in non traditional female departments such as foreign affairs and defence?

Women's rights also include the dignity and integrity of female only spaces, services and sports. The idea that a man can be a woman just because he feels like one is just so insulting.

I also have sympathy for those who feel that women in combat roles in the armed forces is questionable and compromising - on many levels. Women are generally smaller than men; don't have the same muscular strength or grip and a multitude of other factors which are essential when it comes down to certain kinds of role or task. It is also why we have separate sporting categories for women and girls. It doesn't make women lesser, but it does recognise the differences and tries to adapt to or accommodate them.

I do think trans people should have access to hormone treatment

when a President signs an order saying that you don’t exist, you effectively loose the right to be protected from discrimination
you open the floodgates to conversion therapy- because if trans people don’t legally exist, surely it’s right to force them to subscribe to their birth gender?

do you honestly not see this will massively fire up Transphobia and discrimination of transgender people? One of the most persecuted groups in society already?

One of the most persecuted groups in society already?

Give over.

when a President signs an order saying that you don’t exist

He hasn't said they don't exist, he said there are only two sexes/"genders" in law.

'Trans' is just the contemporary term that is being used for male and female people who don't feel comfortable, for whatever reason, with their sex. It does not make them a separate category of person altogether, nor it does not change the reality of their sex.

Transwomen are male, transmen are female. There is no such sex as 'non binary'.

Apologies but I want to nit pick something because I think it's important. And it sort of shows how all the deliberate corruption of language has affected even how we think here at mumsnet.

People have the right to hormones. The hormones their bodies naturally produce. Nothing more.

Ah yes, the most oppressed group evah!!

who’ve managed to capture every public body in this country, have Starbucks shilling for them, have managed to get a TW who told rape victims to reframe their trauma to be CEO of a rape charity, who managed to persuade virtually every sports body that men in women’s sports is fine, and - checks notes - got the Bank of England to light itself up in trans colours

god only knows what they’d accomplish if they were not oppressed eh?

I mean 'most oppressed' is a joke right?

If any female 'woman' had exposed her naked breasts on The White House , she would have been done for indecent exposure (or whatever the equivalent US offence is!).

These males have been given free reign to do as they please.

At least he didn't play the piano with his cock.

The whole concept of 'trans rights' is nothing more than a general human rights issue. People with trans identities have the same civil rights as everyone else, or they should.

Though the concept of transgenderism itself runs directy counter to the dignity, integrity and sex based rights of women and girls. Males are not and never will be women, and females wanting to escape from their femaleness by taking large doses of masculinising hormones and by chopping off their breasts is a not a woman empowering move.

Jeff Bloke can still call himself Jemima and wear a short skirt and high heels if he wants. What is now changing is the rest of us are no longer forced to pretend that he is literally and actually a woman. It means society can function around clearly understood language and logistics, and that safeguarding can be properly implemented without being described as transphobic dogwhistling.

How can you start organising to fight for women's rights if we have to pretend that men can have abortions?