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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trump announces executive order that says legally there are only 2 genders (hmmm did he mis-speak and meant sex?)

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 20/01/2025 17:39

Well this will add to the confusion.

Have just heard him use the word gender, even though earlier news reports had said he would say only 2 sexes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

Trump to sign order proclaiming there are only two sexes

Donald Trump's government is set to recognise only two genders, male and female. The move will come as part of a swathe of executive orders the incoming president will sign on his first day back in the White House. It is one of two branded as "common...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-sign-order-proclaiming-only-160700963.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
lifeturnsonadime · 21/01/2025 13:22

lechiffre55 · 21/01/2025 13:20

At least he didn't play the piano with his cock.

Oh god I'd forgotten about that : S

Datun · 21/01/2025 13:22

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:09

I do think trans people should have access to hormone treatment

when a President signs an order saying that you don’t exist, you effectively loose the right to be protected from discrimination
you open the floodgates to conversion therapy- because if trans people don’t legally exist, surely it’s right to force them to subscribe to their birth gender?

do you honestly not see this will massively fire up Transphobia and discrimination of transgender people? One of the most persecuted groups in society already?

He said there were only two sexes. A man can identify as what the hell he likes, wear what he wants.

What he can't do is say he's an actual woman, and access women's spaces, awards, and services.

One of the team stood up and said I can't believe I'm actually having to say this, but there will be no more men in women's prisons.

The important part of that sentence is that he can't believe he's actually having to say it.

There is no conversion therapy. Trans people aren't actually the opposite sex. They're not reverting to anything.

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:22

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/01/2025 13:00

"Childless cat ladies" is a twattish comment, but it's no more sexist than how many soi disant "progressive" men talk about women who want sex based protections and spaces.

I can’t seriously believe you’re about to argue trump isn’t really that sexist. Please tell me that’s it what to think and spare us from having to list examples of his blatant misogyny

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/01/2025 13:23

Oh god I'd forgotten about that : S

Probably for the best!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/01/2025 13:23

I can’t seriously believe you’re about to argue trump isn’t really that sexist.

That's good then because I didn't Confused

Riapia · 21/01/2025 13:25

The founding fathers banished the word sex from all American dictionaries.
575 Amendment.
😉😁😁.

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:26

Maaate · 21/01/2025 13:02

A TRA refusing to answer a direct question.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

The right is given to them by legislation in some countries. It was part of the legislation in some states previously.

congratulations you speak French

Datun · 21/01/2025 13:30

*leftorrightnow

let's look at another one of women's rights, that of political representation.

You talked about how we should be focusing on domestic violence and the gender pay gap? Right?

Trans Ideology says that you can have Parliament populated half by men, and half by men who say they're women. And this would be gender equality. Do you agree with that?

Or let's take domestic violence.

We see examples of refuges who will not allow women to have female only provision. That if a man says he's a woman he must access the female provision. Not a male only or mixed provision.

do you agree with that?

i'm just trying to establish how far your feminism goes, when it comes up against your transactivation. I'm not just your feminism, but the feminism you say we should all be practising.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 21/01/2025 13:32

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:09

I do think trans people should have access to hormone treatment

when a President signs an order saying that you don’t exist, you effectively loose the right to be protected from discrimination
you open the floodgates to conversion therapy- because if trans people don’t legally exist, surely it’s right to force them to subscribe to their birth gender?

do you honestly not see this will massively fire up Transphobia and discrimination of transgender people? One of the most persecuted groups in society already?

I see the EO as marking the turning point of a long pendulum swing. You fear the swing the other way - and so do I, and I suspect so do most people debating with you here. But for me, the time to try to slow the swing down is when it's approaching a midpoint between extremes, not trying to hold it at an extreme, or even try to drag it to an even more extreme position.

When I see signs that removal of legitimate protections of trans people is approaching, I expect to speak up in protection of them. I think this is similar to JKR's position, where she has stated that she will protect trans rights. But this area is one where competing rights are claimed, and a balance is needed. One ideological standpoint trying to dictate extreme policies with unjust consequences, as in Afghanistan (women being appallingly oppressed) or as in Australia (lesbians currently being obliged to include men), is asking for a pendulum swing that goes too far. Not much risk of going too far in a liberal direction in Afghanistan at present, but the fear of that among the Taliban is a factor.

Similarly there are in theory competing rights in play with abortion law; how much weight is given to women's "right to choose", and foetuses' status and "right to live", and various other issues, are ethical questions which are best answered by trying to understand and balance all the arguments, as we have done fairly successfully in the UK over the past 50 years. I'm wary, as a man, of bringing up abortion, but we have had a reasonably open and nuanced debate in the UK during my lifetime, and I wish we could do as well in other areas of debate. At least we are not being silenced any more.

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:33

To my knowledge there isn’t a single trans person in the uk parliament or in the senate or congress? Or in any government in any country in the entire world? But yes is see the problem..

already said I think trans people shouldn’t be in female prisons - don’t need an EOD to tweak that legislation

notathenabutcassandra · 21/01/2025 13:34

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:33

To my knowledge there isn’t a single trans person in the uk parliament or in the senate or congress? Or in any government in any country in the entire world? But yes is see the problem..

already said I think trans people shouldn’t be in female prisons - don’t need an EOD to tweak that legislation

Clearly that's exactly what is required.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 21/01/2025 13:35

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:33

To my knowledge there isn’t a single trans person in the uk parliament or in the senate or congress? Or in any government in any country in the entire world? But yes is see the problem..

already said I think trans people shouldn’t be in female prisons - don’t need an EOD to tweak that legislation

You haven't heard of Sarah McBride?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/01/2025 13:35

There's been a "trans MP" who lost the seat in the last election, Jamie Wallis. Forgotten?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60996138

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/01/2025 13:36

People going on about Elon Musk and all the tech bros who have now fallen into line behind Trump usually fail to mention the billions of dollars of corporate money behind the Kamala Harris campaign. The Democrats are now the party of the billionaire donors; the big pharmaceutical ( and gender 'medicine') interests; the George Soros's of this world; the Pritzkers, the transhumanists - such as Martine Rothblatt.

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:36

notathenabutcassandra · 21/01/2025 13:34

Clearly that's exactly what is required.

Why? Why not make a precise legislation targeting that specific issue if that’s really the main thing?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/01/2025 13:37

You haven't heard of Sarah McBride?

Isn't there that Zooey Zephyr or whatever person as well? And I posted the first U.K. trans MP.

@leftorrightnow isn't very well informed on this issue, for a genderist!

Datun · 21/01/2025 13:38

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:33

To my knowledge there isn’t a single trans person in the uk parliament or in the senate or congress? Or in any government in any country in the entire world? But yes is see the problem..

already said I think trans people shouldn’t be in female prisons - don’t need an EOD to tweak that legislation

Right so no automatic right to opposite sex hormones, no men in women's prisons, or sport, or taking their place in Parliament.

So what about rape refuges and domestic violence centres? Do you agree that we should have sex segregated provision for those?

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:38

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/01/2025 13:36

People going on about Elon Musk and all the tech bros who have now fallen into line behind Trump usually fail to mention the billions of dollars of corporate money behind the Kamala Harris campaign. The Democrats are now the party of the billionaire donors; the big pharmaceutical ( and gender 'medicine') interests; the George Soros's of this world; the Pritzkers, the transhumanists - such as Martine Rothblatt.

No party or presidential candidate can succeed in the US without corporate funding. But yes I’m definitely sceptic of big pharma interests

MarieDeGournay · 21/01/2025 13:38

leftorrightnow One of the most persecuted groups in society already?

I can't believe people can still say that with a straight face, I thought it had been strategically withdrawn from TRA arguments these days, along with 'Children born in the wrong bodies'.

Not only is this old chestnut untrue, but it is an example of tasteless 'elbowing in' to claim to belong with groups in society who do not have the power to cause changes in legislation, language, education, medicine, etc which trans activists have achieved in an incredibly short space of time. Persecuted? Yeah right.

It's the anti-mic-drop statement in support of transgenderism: if you have to resort to 'One of the most persecuted groups in society already' it reveals a lack of more sensible arguments.

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:39

Datun · 21/01/2025 13:38

Right so no automatic right to opposite sex hormones, no men in women's prisons, or sport, or taking their place in Parliament.

So what about rape refuges and domestic violence centres? Do you agree that we should have sex segregated provision for those?

I think people in that sector recommend that yes and it’s in fact mainly for the protection of trans people

notathenabutcassandra · 21/01/2025 13:40

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:36

Why? Why not make a precise legislation targeting that specific issue if that’s really the main thing?

That's exactly what he's kickstarting. Keep up.

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/01/2025 13:40

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:33

To my knowledge there isn’t a single trans person in the uk parliament or in the senate or congress? Or in any government in any country in the entire world? But yes is see the problem..

already said I think trans people shouldn’t be in female prisons - don’t need an EOD to tweak that legislation

What about Rachel Levine? He was in charge of health - and even over-rode his own commissioned study into WPATH when it didn't find what he wanted it to. He wanted to make 'gender medicine' available to even younger children.
This guy ( a father and ex military man) was parading around and having people refer to him as 'she'.

What about Sam Brinton - in environmental department - who claimed a non binary identity and was found guilty of stealing women's suitcases at airports - and then wearing the clothes at high profile events?

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:41

MarieDeGournay · 21/01/2025 13:38

leftorrightnow One of the most persecuted groups in society already?

I can't believe people can still say that with a straight face, I thought it had been strategically withdrawn from TRA arguments these days, along with 'Children born in the wrong bodies'.

Not only is this old chestnut untrue, but it is an example of tasteless 'elbowing in' to claim to belong with groups in society who do not have the power to cause changes in legislation, language, education, medicine, etc which trans activists have achieved in an incredibly short space of time. Persecuted? Yeah right.

It's the anti-mic-drop statement in support of transgenderism: if you have to resort to 'One of the most persecuted groups in society already' it reveals a lack of more sensible arguments.

reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-2024#:~:text=2023%20also%20saw%20the%20highest,hate%20crimes%20recorded%20that%20year.

Datun · 21/01/2025 13:42

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:39

I think people in that sector recommend that yes and it’s in fact mainly for the protection of trans people

Okay. So you agree with us about sports, prisons, rape refuges, domestic violence centres, Parliament and hormones.

How about changing rooms?

We currently have a case going through a tribunal where female nurses, who must change into scrubs in a communal room before they start work, are forced to change with a man stripping off.

Do you agree that they, and he, should have their own provision?

leftorrightnow · 21/01/2025 13:43

Shortshriftandlethal · 21/01/2025 13:40

What about Rachel Levine? He was in charge of health - and even over-rode his own commissioned study into WPATH when it didn't find what he wanted it to. He wanted to make 'gender medicine' available to even younger children.
This guy ( a father and ex military man) was parading around and having people refer to him as 'she'.

What about Sam Brinton - in environmental department - who claimed a non binary identity and was found guilty of stealing women's suitcases at airports - and then wearing the clothes at high profile events?

Edited

Levine is a professor of pediatrics and psychiatry at the Penn State College of Medicine, and previously served as the Pennsylvania physician general from 2015 to 2017 and as secretary of the Pennsylvania Department of Health from 2017 to 2021.[3]Levine is one of only a few openlytransgender government officials in the United States,[4] and is the first to hold an office that requires Senate confirmation.[5][6]On 19 October 2021, Levine became the first openly transgender four-star officer in the nation's eight uniformed services.[7]

The first, the ONLY one! thinks there’s a whole until we reach even 1 pct of US politicians being transgender. But yes you found one. And one in the UK. An epidemic of transgender influence, clearly

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