Three-day ban on Reddit for “hate”

[ConversingWithStrangers]

The only thing I can think of is posting on a UK sub about male violence. A man said that it’s not just men who have a problem with being violent because he’d been assaulted by a trans woman. I replied, “how did you know your assailant was trans?”.

They literally have subs for men to masturbate to videos of women who have a look of being “dead behind the eyes” they’ve been abused so much.

(It’s either that or somebody doesn’t like my crochet advice).

Serious question for Lostcat: what is the point of the word "lesbian" if it includes heterosexual males? What does it now mean?

Sexuality is based on sex. The clue is in the name.

Human sex cannot change. A transwoman is an individual of the male sex, always was, always will be.

If that individual is sexually attracted to women, i.e. people of the female sex, he is heterosexual, attracted to the opposite sex, not homosexual, attracted to the same sex.

I mean exactly what I said in the part of my comment that you removed.

They are saying that these women aren't attracted back

and now you are denying the sexual orientation of non-trans lesbians who are attracted to trans women.

Women who are attracted to men are straight. Homosexuality. It's based on sex. The clue is in the name. It's not based on the self image of the participants.

God. All the activism for gay men and women, the marches, the campaigns to change the law, make it legal. The born this way concept.

All now targeted by homophobic people who think it shouldn't exist.

That lesbian is wrong. Gay men must accept straight women in their dating pool.

Ugh.

I hate to tell you, lost, but there's a right side of history, and you are so not on it.

and now you are denying the sexual orientation of non-trans lesbians who are attracted to trans women.

The minority group of them, even if we use your definition of "lesbian".

Oh here we go again.

What were you saying again - about how it's homophobic to deny the sexual orientation of a lesbian?

Let's take a little stock.

So far on this thread we have:

Trans women who are attracted to women (and participate in lesbian communities) are "fucking ridiculous", "creepy", "misogynistic liars".

And

Lesbian women who are attracted to trans women are not lesbians.

But no one is being the least bit transphobic, and no one is denying anyone else's sexuality because of course that would be homophobic.

The mental gymnastics of gender critical logics (and judgement) know no bounds.

@Lostcat still not addressed this post from earlier or similar posts who have raised the same questions in good faith.

The last half of this thread looks a bit like Swiss cheese now.

Saying that you are heterosexual does not tell anyone what sex you are, only that you are attracted to people of the opposite sex.
Saying what sex you are doesn't tell anyone what your sexual orientation is, only that you are male or female.

Yes Reddit really is quite pathetic overall with lots of misogynistic crap. Their moderation is mostly hitting a panic button every time someone asks a challenging question. I'm permanently close to deleting it but specific sub reddits are excellent for niche topics. The best ones are totally uncontaminated by identity politics of all stripes.

The vibe is changing there in general. People might not risk openly challenge bs posts but there's a lot less fawning now, more disinterest. I think a lot of people got caught up in the 'You go girl, you're so brave and stunning!' stuff early on but it was superficial herd think and insincere virtue signalling.

You have removed the context again from people's posts.

@Lostcat you are not achieving anything meaningful here. You are taking established words, ascribing new meanings to them and then calling out anyone objecting as trans/homophobic. This playbook is no longer working.

Oh, I hope you don't mind me adding this here too?

Can you explain cat where this link indicated that the majority of lesbians in the UK accept male people as women and lesbian? And where this data indicates that the majority of lesbians accept male people into single sex provisions?

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/YouGov-_LGBandTperceptionsLGBTQplus_sample.pdf

I and others ask because you have made it clear that you have relied on this specific data to support your claims about how the majority of lesbians feel about male people with transgender identities who claim they too are lesbians.

I don't see it, but obviously you can explain it since you have claimed to have expertise in this topic. So, I think I am missing something significant with the data.

you are not achieving anything meaningful here

Sadly I can't argue with that.

Sometimes it just feels important to stand up and be counted - speak truth to power - even if one is mostly just whistling into the wind.

But you are not speaking truth. You are re-defining words and then objecting to those of us who don't accept these new definitions. This is a power play.

It is also an emotionally manipulative power play.

Because if the very people who are rejecting that redefinition are then being accused of being hateful, transphobic and homophobic themselves, they are shamed into silence.

And much of the narrative on much of this thread that 'the majority of lesbians accept male people who claim they are women' doesn't seem to have any supporting evidence at all. And the person who posted such 'evidence' simply will not clarify how the data they are using supports their claims, yet continues to double down that their position is evidenced and true.

Another poster said it was homophobic to deny someone's sexual orientation. She is absolutely right. It is absolutely unacceptable to tell a lesbian woman that she is not a lesbian woman.

It is also unacceptable to call trans women who are attracted to women (and participate in lesbian communities) "fucking ridiculous", "creepy", "misogynistic liars".

This is speaking truth to power.

And this 'truth to power' covers your claim that the majority of lesbians accept male people who claim to be lesbians as lesbians and women how? How is this a true fact? Talk us through the data.

Thought exercise: rewrite "trans women" to "males" and see how your comment sounds.

I know people who call themselves vegetarian, who nonetheless eat fish and the occasional bit of chicken.

They are not vegetarian.

The fact that they call themselves vegetarian doesn't matter, because the word vegetarian has an objective, widely-agreed and widely-understood definition. That is the point of words. If a meat-eater can call herself a vegetarian, the word vegetarian ceases to have any useful meaning.

Similarly, a woman who sleeps with men is not a lesbian, even if she calls herself one. People don't get to choose the words that describe themselves, because that is not how language works. I might as well go round claiming to be 25 and Australian. I am not those things, however much I might claim to be there, and if people tell me I am not those things, they are not displaying bigotry or denying me my fundamental rights or any other such crap.

I am sick to the back teeth of these bad faith arguments.

No, it is not speaking truth to power. it is just more of the emotionally manipulative power play. As @Helleofabore asks, show us the evidence that the majority of lesbians agree that sexual orientation now means gender orientation. Then we can start to take you seriously.

👆