Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The “women’s march” that’s all about the men.

1000 replies

BackToLurk · 11/12/2024 13:24

I couldn’t see a thread about this, but I’m just here to share how annoying it is to see a so-called women’s march so concerned with placating men. This is the march in January.

As well as the highly predictable “this is for all women” (meaning including the ones who are men) and the ‘we don’t tolerate transphobia’ (meaning any concept of sex-based oppression), the Facebook group is full of posts reassuring men that of course they’re welcome and it’s not all men and obviously “not my Nigel”. It’s infuriating. Why do people do this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
218
cariadlet · 10/01/2025 22:51

I asked for my link to the Brighton march organising doc to be deleted because it had personal info which shouldn't really be posted publicly but there's some pitiful stuff.

Eg list of equipment to buy (high viz, walkie talkies, banners etc). NONE of it ticked off with the march only a week away.

The risk assessment made me smile.

The “women’s march” that’s all about the men.
TigerLily40 · 10/01/2025 23:11

cariadlet · 10/01/2025 22:51

I asked for my link to the Brighton march organising doc to be deleted because it had personal info which shouldn't really be posted publicly but there's some pitiful stuff.

Eg list of equipment to buy (high viz, walkie talkies, banners etc). NONE of it ticked off with the march only a week away.

The risk assessment made me smile.

TERF groups 😂😂 How pathetic

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/01/2025 23:16

I think the MWM is 17 Feb.

MarieDeGournay · 10/01/2025 23:23

TigerLily40 · 10/01/2025 23:11

TERF groups 😂😂 How pathetic

TERF groups AND 'men's rights activists'?? - that's a new-to-me 'forced teaming'!

TigerLily40 · 10/01/2025 23:25

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/01/2025 23:16

I think the MWM is 17 Feb.

Yes it is and I am looking forward to it

TigerLily40 · 10/01/2025 23:27

MarieDeGournay · 10/01/2025 23:23

TERF groups AND 'men's rights activists'?? - that's a new-to-me 'forced teaming'!

Yep and since when would men go down with signs demanding their rights gets acknowledged? Am I missing something? Maybe some "feminist" or far leftie wants to scream for trans rights at this so called women's rights march but doubt men will.

BackToLurk · 10/01/2025 23:31

MarieDeGournay · 10/01/2025 23:23

TERF groups AND 'men's rights activists'?? - that's a new-to-me 'forced teaming'!

(Was unreasonably annoyed by their lack of a possessive apostrophe for “men’s”)

OP posts:
Snowypeaks · 10/01/2025 23:48

cariadlet · 10/01/2025 22:51

I asked for my link to the Brighton march organising doc to be deleted because it had personal info which shouldn't really be posted publicly but there's some pitiful stuff.

Eg list of equipment to buy (high viz, walkie talkies, banners etc). NONE of it ticked off with the march only a week away.

The risk assessment made me smile.

The MRAs will be on the march. It's just their sort of thing.

bellinisurge · 11/01/2025 08:27

Apologies for ignorance but what's the UK women's march and how does it compare with the Million Women's March on 17 February?
This all seems a bit JPF /PFJ from Monty Python

The latter seems like one I can get with. But I have no intention of joining an "all women" - code for a Malaga day out - thing if it has no clear purpose

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/01/2025 08:37

The latter seems like one I can get with. But I have no intention of joining an "all women" - code for a Malaga day out - thing if it has no clear purpose

Then I'd avoid the marches next week.

Datun · 11/01/2025 09:07

"all women" - code for a Malaga day out

Nailed it.

cariadlet · 11/01/2025 09:10

bellinisurge · 11/01/2025 08:27

Apologies for ignorance but what's the UK women's march and how does it compare with the Million Women's March on 17 February?
This all seems a bit JPF /PFJ from Monty Python

The latter seems like one I can get with. But I have no intention of joining an "all women" - code for a Malaga day out - thing if it has no clear purpose

The UK Women's March was created first. The FB group was created in November (so presumably organisers had started planning before then) but it's a week away, a lot of groups are still fundraising and looking for volunteers, and Glasgow has been completely cancelled.

Totally TWAW. Progress Pride flags and trans flags all over their graphics. Women kicked out for asking Terfy questions.

Lots of women also bringing sons, boyfriends and husbands on the march.

Any question about traumatised women wanting a female space on the march is met with a suggestion that there could be a separate little space for them (rather than coralling the men into a separate space).

It really is all about the men.

The Million Women's March is a newer idea.

The organiser only wants women on the march. I know some GC women initially found this more inviting but pulled back when they looked into the organiser. I'm not sure what the concerns are.

cariadlet · 11/01/2025 09:11

BackToLurk · 10/01/2025 23:31

(Was unreasonably annoyed by their lack of a possessive apostrophe for “men’s”)

I love a bit of grammar pedantry. 😄

ArabellaScott · 11/01/2025 09:16

TigerLily40 · 10/01/2025 23:27

Yep and since when would men go down with signs demanding their rights gets acknowledged? Am I missing something? Maybe some "feminist" or far leftie wants to scream for trans rights at this so called women's rights march but doubt men will.

MRAs can and do attack feminists, although many of them now call themselves 'antifa' or 'trans rights activists', and similar.

TigerLily40 · 11/01/2025 10:32

cariadlet · 11/01/2025 09:10

The UK Women's March was created first. The FB group was created in November (so presumably organisers had started planning before then) but it's a week away, a lot of groups are still fundraising and looking for volunteers, and Glasgow has been completely cancelled.

Totally TWAW. Progress Pride flags and trans flags all over their graphics. Women kicked out for asking Terfy questions.

Lots of women also bringing sons, boyfriends and husbands on the march.

Any question about traumatised women wanting a female space on the march is met with a suggestion that there could be a separate little space for them (rather than coralling the men into a separate space).

It really is all about the men.

The Million Women's March is a newer idea.

The organiser only wants women on the march. I know some GC women initially found this more inviting but pulled back when they looked into the organiser. I'm not sure what the concerns are.

I wonder what the concerns are. Will need to look into it

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/01/2025 10:38

Reposting the Million Women March organising team from Facebook:

A post from the organising team to clarify our core values and mission statement. It's long, but please take a moment to read, and please post it, and pin it to your localised event page. xxx

A march by women, for children.

So far, we have confirmed marches in:
London, Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Glasgow, St Helens, Norfolk, Cardiff and Newcastle (this will be updated as necessary).

The Million Women March for Children was created in response to the recent revelations about the grooming gangs, where new details were provided about the extent to which girls were abused, and the numerous institutional failures which contributed to this.

These details followed on from recent coverage of Sara Shariff's death, and the horrors she endured whilst alive, and again - the fact that these things were completely avoidable had the necessary steps been taken to protect her.

Let's not also forget the recent coverage of decades long abuse of children within the Church of England, something which was only possible because adults within the church turned a blind eye to the abuse.

Whilst these three examples provided the impetus for the march, lets not forget that they are only a few of the numerous horrors we hear about. These stories are ongoing, and ever more frequent. And these abuses have been happening to too many children, for too long.

On an almost daily basis we see news articles of paedophiles walking free from court, perhaps with a community order, perhaps with a suspended sentence - but nonetheless, they walk free.

This happens despite the age of the children they're viewing online being abused, and regardless of how many hundreds/thousands of films and videos viewed or distributed - they walk free.
Somehow, whilst we were looking the other way, viewing and distribution of online child sex abuse seems to have morphed into a low level crime, with lesser sentencing being imposed than for social media posts. Lets not forget - this is not a victimless crime - it's real children who are being tortured and abused in this footage.

Real horrors are being inflicted upon them. Yet these paedophiles walk free with what is effectively little more than a slap on the wrist. If there is no punishment for these crimes against children, then there is literally no deterrent against it continuing. The message it sends out to the public is that CSA is "no big deal if you're just watching it", and the message it send to survivors is - "You don't matter, so don't expect justice".

For most adults there is an instinctive imperative to protect children from harm, and particularly from real danger.

We know that perpetrators of abuse clearly do not share that instinct, but what has become increasingly clear is that neither do some professionals working within institutions which are supposed to safeguard children.

We’ve seen it across the years from the church, children's homes, grooming gangs, the BBC, politicians, paedophile rings etc - the list is endless - there were always allegations which were ignored.

We don't know why these professionals turn a blind eye to the abuse, cover for abusers, or why they fail to take the necessary steps to protect children when there are reports of abuse.

Maybe they have become desensitised over the years, maybe they have succumbed to institutional apathy, or maybe it's another case of "no big deal if you're just watching"... and "you don't matter, so don't expect justice"?

We don't know WHY they are failing to protect children - we just know that they are. And we have had enough.

Goals of the march.

We are marching to highlight the issues above, in the hope that this government will acknowledge what successive governments haven't - that when it comes to the protecting children from abuse, our institutions have been failing badly (and in some cases covering up these failures) for decades.

We want an admission that minor changes to legislation don't work when there are entrenched attitudes and behaviours within these institutions which result in abuse being ignored, and as a consequence, enabled.

We want this government to accept that repeatedly placing a Band-Aid over a bullet hole when it comes to these failures is never going to work if the institutions require major surgery.

We want them to realise that we are no longer prepared to accept this broken status quo, we are no longer going to sit on our anger, say nothing and listen to politicians spew out empty promises about “lessons learned” whilst children continue to suffer.

And we want them to commit to prioritising the rights of children and their safety above everything else, particularly above those of their abusers, the reputations of involved institutions, and the need for politicians to "save face".

Our Key Demands:

  1. Overhaul of Institutions to Centre Child Welfare Above All Else

The welfare of children must be the top priority in every public institution. We demand a full overhaul of systems and protocols to ensure that child protection is never compromised by bureaucracy, indifference, or fear of political backlash.

  1. Accountability for Public Sector Failures - Those in positions of authority who have failed to protect children must be held accountable.

This includes police officers, social workers, and other public servants who ignored or mishandled abuse cases. Accountability must be enforced through independent investigations and appropriate legal action.

  1. Increased Convictions for Child Abusers -

We demand a concerted effort to increase convictions for anyone who abuses children. This includes better training for law enforcement, more resources for investigations, and specialised units to handle these cases thoroughly and without compromise.

  1. Sentencing Reform: Mandatory Custodial Sentences for Abusers -Sentencing matters.

Crimes involving child abuse are always calculated and premeditated—they do not happen by accident. We demand tougher, mandatory custodial sentences for all forms of child abuse. Leniency sends the wrong message and endangers future victims.

  1. Tougher Sentences for Online Sexual Exploitation of Children - Online sexual abuse and exploitation are not victimless crimes.

Every image or video involves a real child who has been harmed. We demand mandatory custodial sentences for anyone found guilty of accessing, distributing, or profiting from child sexual abuse material. These crimes must be treated with the same severity as physical abuse.

  1. Better Education on Spotting Abuse and Grooming, and Empowering Children

We demand improved education for both professionals and children:

Training for professionals: Teachers, healthcare workers, and anyone working with children must be trained to better spot the signs of abuse and grooming - too many children are dismissed or unfairly treated as victims.

Empowering children: Schools must implement age-appropriate education to teach children how to protect themselves, recognise potential predators, and know where to seek help if they feel unsafe.

  1. Overhaul of the Family Courts and Support for Victims of Rape -

We demand a complete overhaul of the family courts to protect survivors and their children:

Rapists and child rapists should not be allowed access to any children conceived through rape. It is unconscionable that survivors are forced to interact with their abusers through the family court system.

Survivors who choose to raise children conceived through rape must be fully supported, and the stigma they face must be addressed. Society needs to work harder to ensure that victims are treated with dignity and compassion.

Implement legal reforms to permanently strip parental rights from convicted rapists and child abusers, ensuring the safety and well-being of both survivors and children.

  1. Stronger protections for whistle-blowers.

In all public institutions tasked with safeguarding children, there are countless dedicated professionals who genuinely want to protect children and hold abusers accountable. However, many are unable to do so because they fear retaliation, job loss, or being forced out of their positions. Therefore, we call for the establishment of robust systems that ensure these individuals are protected by employment law and supported in their workplaces when they need to speak up.

Who we want to attend our march:

Women and children only marching please. We recognise that many men also feel strongly about this issue, however for the following reasons we feel it's best to be a march by women, for children.

Think back to the the summer of last year when there was an outpouring of grief and anger about the stabbing of little girls, which tragically resulted in the death of Bebe King, Elsie Dot Stancombe and Alice Dasilva Aguiar.

People took to the streets, and in some cases these protests turned to violence and criminal damage. Keir Starmer swiftly labelled ALL protesters as "far right", and completely disregarded the fact that the majority of protesters did NOT engage in any criminal behaviour.

The reason for people's anger and grief was solely attributed to being far right and racist - and because of this, the subject was silenced. We feel that there is significantly less risk of protests becoming violent or resulting in antisocial behaviour if it is purely women and children marching, and therefore, less chance of being unjustly labelled by our Prime Minister.

Keir Starmer has also stated recently that discussion and comments about the grooming gangs, or wanting a national inquiry is "jumping on the far right bandwagon".

We cannot continue to allow our political parties, media and institutions to repeatedly silence discussion of these topics by labelling people "far right", because in the majority of cases this is absolutely untrue.

Some survivors of the grooming gangs who've spoken out on social media have recently been visited by police and told to remove their posts - posts about their own abuse, their own lives.

We absolutely must not allow the voices of survivors to be silenced as they were when they were being abused. And importantly, we have to be clear that people are allowed to feel anger, outrage and yes, even hate towards abusers - even if in recent years expressions of this are threatened with criminality.

We feel that we can only express this anger, and speak about the things that this government doesn't want us to speak about if we are doing it appropriately - through SPEECH and by marching - and without any risk of violence or antisocial behaviour.

We are more than happy to have men as speakers if they fall into the following categories:-

Survivors from any kind of CSA whose abuse was enabled/ignored/extended because of the failings of the institutions.

People in professions that have witnessed these kinds of failures to protect children, or who were whistle-blowers.

Parents of children who kept getting no response or action from police, social care, politicians etc.

Please note, although there’s a lot of discussion at the moment about the failure to protect girls from the grooming gangs, our focus of the march is all the CSA/CSE which is allowed to flourish because of institutional negligence or complicity.

Please note: to ensure a consistent message, we won’t be taking adhoc/impromptu speakers on the day. All speakers will need to be arranged in advance.

What we are asking from attendees:

In a nutshell - to leave any personal politics, agendas, causes or issues at the door and focus simply on WHY we are marching - to highlight how institutional failure is enabling the ongoing abuse of children.

This march is not about the women marching, it is about the children. Its about those survivors who were failed by services who were supposed to protect them, the children who are currently being abused and failed by services, and all the future child victims of abuse if the status quo remains.

That message can only be taken in the spirit it is intended, and the speakers stories taken seriously if it is not hijacked by others who want to make the march about their cause, or those who simply want to silence any discussion of this issue. We have an opportunity to reflect the outrage and frustration of a nation about the ongoing abuses of children - as long as this message isn't hijacked by other narratives.

We have already received numerous criticisms, some saying that men should be completely banned (even as speakers), others saying that all men should be able to attend the march.

We have had some people saying that more focus should be on grooming gangs, and some saying that we shouldn't mention grooming gangs at all. The reality is we are not going to be able to please EVERYONE, and if we're honest, we don't really want to!

We want this march and the speeches to be focussed on one thing - institutional failures which enable or facilitate child abuse.

ALL institutions.
ALL children.
ALL abusers.

We don't want that message to get watered down or the narrative twisted because other agendas are being promoted on the day.

It goes without saying, we are unable to actually prevent anyone from attending if they choose to.

Which is why we are asking anyone who wants to attend, - please park all other issues for one day and to focus on what the march is about.

Because if we as a nation can't put politics and our differences aside to unite on this issue - then when the hell can we?

Organisation of regional marches.

Please note that we will only be confirming and promoting the Million Women Marches for Children that are in agreement with the ethos of the march, and organisers who commit to arranging marches in the spirit of this. We know that nobody can control exactly what happens on marches or who attends, but as long as organisers are promoting the above message, that is as much as any of us can do.

We are aware that there are some splinter marches that are being organised via Facebook who do not want to link in with us, and who may not share our goals. This is another reason why we only intend to confirm the marches if they have linked in with us via X - via
@MWN_london

For those on Facebook who have set up marches and wish to be confirmed/promoted and linked to the MWM for Children event, please contact us via the X page listed above when you have created an X page for your event.

If you have difficulty with creating an X page for any reason, please ask us via the MWM London page on X and we will see if any one can help with this.

For the short term, we have a group chat (for organisers of confirmed marches) on X to share ideas and to ask for advice. All going well, by next week we will have a simpler, more streamlined way for you to get advice and support from the more experienced organisers.

Finally, to all of the incredible organisers - THANKYOU! ❤️

We have been stunned by how quickly women have responded to volunteer their time and energy to setting up local events, particularly when so many of you taking on this challenge for the first time!

You are all truly amazing!!!!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/01/2025 10:41

I wonder what the concerns are. Will need to look into it

I imagine it's the mention of grooming gangs. I think that's why men are not wanted on the march, so it doesn't get taken over/attacked by male troublemakers with an agenda from either right or left.

ArabellaScott · 11/01/2025 11:05

Oh, okay. I don't disagree with their aims, but it isn't really a women's march. Bit confused.

'This march is not about the women marching, it is about the children'

TigerLily40 · 11/01/2025 11:51

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/01/2025 10:41

I wonder what the concerns are. Will need to look into it

I imagine it's the mention of grooming gangs. I think that's why men are not wanted on the march, so it doesn't get taken over/attacked by male troublemakers with an agenda from either right or left.

I am glad they are keeping men from marching as it can be quite triggering for women with trauma. The January march's solution to that is to segregate these trauma victims.

TigerLily40 · 11/01/2025 11:52

ArabellaScott · 11/01/2025 11:05

Oh, okay. I don't disagree with their aims, but it isn't really a women's march. Bit confused.

'This march is not about the women marching, it is about the children'

I am a tad bit confused too but agree with their aims.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 11/01/2025 11:54

Yes, that's how I understand it Arabella.

I can see why they might want a women-only march, but calling it 'women' when it's entirely about children's issues muddies the message. The cause should be in the name.

And while a worthy issue in its own right, it doesn't help people looking for an alternative Women's March that is actually about women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/01/2025 12:45

Not sure we're likely to get one of those @NoBinturongsHereMate - given that the "Women's March" is more about trans.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/01/2025 12:45

Perhaps someone needs to set up a third March! Confused

MarieDeGournay · 11/01/2025 13:44

Oh OK. So the other women's march isn't about women either. T'riffic.

cariadlet & BackToLurk - enjoy the apostrophes.Grin

spannasaurus · 11/01/2025 14:40

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/01/2025 12:45

Perhaps someone needs to set up a third March! Confused

There's the million women rise march on 8th March

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.