The latest fallouts in GC world

[Pluvia]

My terfing energy has been focussed elsewhere in recent months and I haven't been here or on TwiX or social media much. Now I've taken responsibility for tweeting/ comms on behalf of a small but potentially significant LGB group and I discover that there seems to be something going on — another schism — in GC world. Jane Clare Jones's name seems to be coming up a lot. Something seems to have gone on but I can't work out what.

If it was my own account I'd just ignore, but the followers of this account are bringing it up and seem to expect an opinion to be expressed or a side to be taken. Also I'm seeing a lot about 'ultras' and 'lites', which is new to me. Can anyone enlighten me? I need to tread carefully.

Good question, but inexplicably she does have some.

The Dworkin quote says fighting male supremacy is for the benefit of all women. That does not mean we have to agree with other women. That does not mean we can not criticise other women. It means when we argue for measures to stop male partners abusing female partners, that is for all women, even those who say they would never let a man abuse them. Or when we campaign for pro choice, that is for all women, even those who have campaigned against abortion.

I am not the one calling women who agree with JCJ fans. So who are her fans? Or do you just mean anyone who has ever agreed with her?

No one said you have to like her. What the poster said was:

Minimizing male violence and violent threats is not a good look

And it isn't. And that's why you need to read the Dworkin quote again, because it's you who hasn't grasped it.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I disagree with you and others here about the level of threat. That is not minimising male violence. It is a disagreement.
And if KJK is under such severe threat, why is her security not much better? Because she knows she is not.

Again, I'm not going to stand by and let you push misinformation. Here's another example of violent threats to KJK and other women, women being attacked, and it all being minimised by TRAs and Proper Feminists alike.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4663595-standing-for-women-portland-rally-cancelled-over-violent-threats?page=1

This reminds me of the piece Peter Bogassion did with Kara Dansky when he said that many women don't carry a gun or learn self defence so they can't be that worried about male violence.

I didn't no - but to be honest I'm a Social Media veteran, online since pre-web days and well used to not feeding the trolls, biting my tongue, and being judicious about who I repost. I think that's good enough for someone doing this a few hours every day for love not money.

Forget about doing it "Properly" would be my advice. Do it to the best of your ability, within the time constraints you have, and keep your eyes on what we are fighting for, not who we are fighting with. I never engage in debate with TRAs, waste of time, they don't think logically - it's all emotion and drama with them, looking to take offence. I might post and attack the ideas being promulgated, but I do try to not attack the person behind them. Odious though many of them are.

Build relationships with the other sane and sensible people and groups out there, don't be afraid to retweet key stuff - just because a key player or group has posted it doesn't mean your followers, logging on 5hrs later, will get to see it from them. I do try to comment, sensibly or sarcastically, on post I RT, but there is not always time.

I've actually enjoyed doing it - it's a bit frustrating that you build relationships for the group, not for yourself, and that you are hidden - OTOH it is quite freeing, a bit like on MN, to have that anonymity. If you find you are not enjoying it in a few months then I would honestly say hand it over to someone else. Life is too short, AND someone who hates doing it won't do as good a job as someone who loves doing it. Be kind to yourself!

This reminds me of the piece Peter Bogassion did with Kara Dansky when he said that many women don't carry a gun or learn self defence so they can't be that worried about male violence.

Nice of the holier than thou ones to use victim blaming MRA style arguments to minimise, isn't it? Some socfems seem very happy to dismiss violence and violent threats by men against women they don't like, which is really quite revealing.

Didn't some security pull out of that tour due to the insane threats that they didn't want to take on?

Yes I think you're right Alison.

KJK has also spoken about how expensive even basic security is, so she likely can't afford more.

What she does is really very brave in that context. It's worth watching the videos she's done discussing why she has security and how much it costs.

Framing KJK as far right when she's clearly not, she's a single issue campaigner who used to be a Labour supporter who will talk to anyone about her single issue, feeds into the 'kill the Nazi' threats she receives in person from violent blokes.

This is what I was referring to by quoting Dworkin.

Whoever purports to be a feminist and does that is not a feminist. Disagree with her, fine, dislike her, fine. But label her as right wing when she's not because you dislike her, that's dangerous misinformation that contributes to an environment where male violence is justified by some people (because 'Nazi') and risks her safety.

I think this is right too.

I've been following this since both KJK and Julia Long ( remember her, the hardcore feminist Lesbian!) went to the US at the behest of distraught mothers of trans-identifying children and the far-right lambasting started by the Soc-Fems.
@AlisonDonut got the whole issue correct on page 1.
I have a different pov as I'm a conservative Lesbian, who is a feminist (love Germaine Greer) always have been, so basically an outsider.
I'm glad women here have woken up to the fact that the Left isn't a guarantor of moral probity. I'm glad they've banded together with women like me. Look at Kellie-Jae and Julia. Many forget her but she and Kellie-Jay are in agreement and I think that's the important thing. I certainly feel that way. I've read and agreed with The Morning Star. I've read the critique of JKJ's dissertation and am a fan of Dworkin and understand both.
Kellie-Jay has my great respect for her activism, I had a wonderful SAHM mother, who was shrewd and wise. I admire Julia Long a stalwart feminist lesbian who never backed down and yelled 'that's a man." from the earliest days. And never backed off. I loved the women who dressed as men in Man Friday. You all are great and doing so much for women!

I bet her travel insurance premiums are massive as well, if she's having to pay for security abroad then she is definitely engaging in risky activity. If she can be insured against that.

I wonder if those asserting that KJK was subject to merely jostling rather than more serious threats also think that's what TRAs did at the Brighton WPUK meeting when they surrounded the building and banged on the doors and windows? A little noise but no real risk.

I've been following this since both KJK and Julia Long ( remember her, the hardcore feminist Lesbian!) went to the US at the behest of distraught mothers of trans-identifying children and the far-right lambasting started by the Soc-Fems.

Yes, with Venice Allan. JCJ managed to make it about her then as well, as I remember.

JCJ wasn't able to breathe for 6 months after that trip, apparently.

Just a little banter that. Now't to write home about.

People mis this element when they say that she deals with "right wing" people because no one on the left will platform GC views.

That's true as far as it goes, but it's not the point - the point is not gate-keeping, because standing up against damaging kids and institutionalizing nonsense is important across political, religious, and social divides, and no one needs to gate-keep around it.

That is, it's a type of action based on a deep principle, not just pragmatism, and the principle is the voice of all women matter, and reaching the ears of all women matters. Even women who are 'far right".

That's an important point - feminism should be for right wing women too. Should be working towards protecting right wing women from male violence too.

I am not a soc fem.

So how does this "not right-wing" stuff fit with KJK's Trumpism?

And her funding from right-wing groups?

I'm not suggesting either way is right or wrong, but to say KJK isn't right-wing is incorrect.

The last person who alleged that KJK has any connection to the nazis has just been sued for defamation to the tune of $300,000

Of course they threatened to kill her. People threaten to kill all the live long day. One particularly nasty bastard sent her a message how he hoped her child would die, and wrote creatively and at length describing her listening to her child's dying death rattle.

She has to pay thousands and thousands of pounds for private fucking security.