Could we ban "transvestigating" threads on here?

[Christinapple]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5225715-ilona-maher

This one for example. Transvestigating is an informal term given to when people play detective and try to determine if a given person (usually a woman) is transgender or not from how they look e.g. photos.

I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans.

As well as being transphobic, IMO this harms all women and reinforces stereotypes of what men/women should look like. And the idea of obsessing over people's appearances like this just doesn't sit well with me.

But don’t forget those extra years brought us gems like female people being manifold.

And that female people are “ a constellation of statistically linked attributes - including genotype - that together match a pattern we identify as sex.”

Checking back in. Has @ButterflyHatched named any trans Holocaust victims yet?

I understand your frustration over the left abandoning its principles and kowtowing to pseudoscience that enables the far right.

It's the trans propaganda which is pseudoscientific, not the medical research and knowledge that humans cannot and do not change sex. Ever.

Anti-trans activism is a road that cannot be walked down without hearing the crunch of bones beneath your feet.

Been going to a creative writing night class, butters?

Still after all these years, the phrase "anti-trans" infuriates me.
It's "pro-women" (original meaning of women).
Think about what that phrase switch means.

Of course. It can only ever be theoretical for a man.

Men can have empathy and compassion for women. Or they can decide they know what's best for women and that their version of feminism trumps that of any daft wee woman's.

https://theonion.com/man-finally-put-in-charge-of-struggling-feminist-moveme-1819569515/

It's deliberate. No one is that tone deaf.

Repurposing the holocaust for your own ends, the same with women's experience of sexual assault and rape, and I believe, female infertility at one point, too.

Trying tocreatively plumb the depths of decency is quite exciting for some people.

As I said it's teenage. The way kids will push boundaries as much as they can, but not quite enough for you to refuse to give them a lift into town

It is ridiculous. Which is why it's important to me to do it.

Firstly to make it impossible for my statements to be (deliberately or otherwise) misinterpreted.

Secondly, to highlight what is going on when genderists try to make one word mean two things so they can pick whichever meaning serves them best, often within the same sentence (eg "TW are women so they should be allowed in women's toilets" mixes up the genderist meaning by which TWAW and the earlier sex-based meaning which justifies there being women's toilets in the first place).

We can have words for different hair colours or heights or 100 subgenres of dance music but apparently it's juat too hard / too exclusive to have a word for female humans that is separte from the word for people who feel a "feminine essence" ? Come on. It's utter self serving mendacious bollocks and the more we point out the utter ridiculousness of what TRAs are trying to make us believe the better.

Yes, there were quite a few threads about this before.

A man will go to his graduation having achieved the highest possible marks in his 'feminism degree', being back slapped all round for understanding women so well, empathising with them, having such great compassion for them, a true feminist, and then leave the building pissed up at midnight, and weave across a deserted car park without a seconds thought.

Didn’t you find the teaspoon?

Datun · Today 15:55

It's deliberate. No one is that tone deaf.

It's pretty tough to think that's the case, it smacks of sadism. Mind you, we've noted numerous cases of TW infiltrating women's support groups and being weird and nasty.

Apparently it is called a scanning tunnelling microscope. Might struggle to lose it down the back of a sofa though…

I might have got muddled with the Deeming thread talking about moving single atoms as the measure of how little truth in some of Pesutto’s statements. (There wasn’t even this)

I'll have another firkle.

Wow, I haven’t heard that phrase since a friend used it years ago to describe her child rummaging in his pants!

Oh, I agree. That is why I do it too.

Because I spent a couple of threads discussing language which wasted effort and time and fed whichever poster it was, their supply of narc grandiosity. And it was more than one poster.

Datun is 100% on the money.

Women are telling you 'no'. That's not being demonised, abused or stopping you from existing.
You can complain about it as much as you like and use as much hyperbole as you like, but this is still simply a 'no'.
No, you can't remove our hard won rights. No, we're not a stereotype or a costume. No, we're not willing to give up our safe spaces. No, we're not giving up our sports. No, we're not willing to accept unfounded accusations that we're far right for saying no to you.
If you think women refusing to kowtow to your demands is abuse, then that's on you. We're done with the hyperbole.

Butters you do realise that no woman would ever need to write what you're writing. What does that tell you?

Anti trans is pushing for the sterilisation of trans-identified children
Anti trans is reducing the bone density and IQ of trans-identified children
Anti trans is scaring trans-identified children with talk of non-existent suicide or ‘genocide’ rather than reassuring them they are part of the safest demographic worldwide so no need to fear
Anti trans is removing the ability of trans-identified children to have enjoyable sex lives in adulthood
Anti trans is telling trans-identified adults and children that they are victims rather than a celebrated group
Anti trans is encouraging trans-identified people to mutilate their bodies
Anti trans is telling trans-identified males they are unsafe in men’s toilets and changing rooms
Anti trans is encouraging transition in adults despite the 18x higher suicide rate that results
Anti trans is failing to properly critique research simply because you like the result, or ignoring research you don’t like
Anti trans is not demanding proper mental health treatment for those who identify as trans before any ‘transitioning’ treatments
Anti trans is not applying proper ethics to research in this group
Anti-trans is not safeguarding trans-identified children and exposing them to age- inappropriate content
Anti trans is not obtaining proper informed consent before treatment
Anti trans is dressing up serious and aggressive treatments in twee phrases, such as top surgery, bottom surgery, or gender affirming care, to minimise the seriousness of it to those seeking it out.

I could go on.

<head explodes>

What a fucking word salad.

Feminism, by its nature, is about women, and should, on that basis, exclude male people however they identify. They can help, by all means, but they're not on the inside, because they can never experience it.

'Male and female essence bearers'? WTF? My experience of being female has had exactly nothing to do with any sort of bloody essence, and everything to do with dealing with misogyny from childhood (thanks, Dad, but also multiple other men who assumed I either no brain cells, or who felt threatened by the brain cells they knew I had)), menstruation, pregnancy, parturition, miscarriage, breastfeeding, menopause, gynae issues and a nice little topping of sexual assault. It's been all about blood, milk, pain, fear, night sweats, and surges and crashes of hormones.

Essence my arse.

As for 'I practice a form', get over yourself. I don't 'practice a form' of feminism. I am a feminist, moved by the cramping of the opportunities of many women, including my mother's, the awful situation of many women still around the world, and the bullshit you still come across in allegedly 'developed countries'.

I used to have some sympathy for you, Butters, but you've burned it all off with that bullshit.

Everyone else, congratulations for soldiering on with this one. My patience ran out some pages back, but I could let that comment go.

Word salad seems to be used to make something seem intellectual and impenetrable. But the reality is that anything that cannot be explained using plain and easy to understand language is probably not actually clever.

Going back to my college days, there’s some discussion around “that which is” and the notion of essence by Socrates, and then later discussions of the logic of this. It’s burn braining stuff and in my opinion, unhelpful at every level, and I suspect butters thinks it’s something that it isn’t.

So as someone (Kierkegard or Sartre maybe) said “existence precedes essence”, meaning that essence cannot override existence. Male existence cannot be overridden by the choice to act out a female essence, how so ever that is defined.

Im amazed I remembered that. I only got a 2:2

To include men into the definition of woman and therefore include them in feminism, the definition of woman has to be something that men can achieve.

"female essence-bearers" is meaningless, but it has to be in order for men to achieve it. What else can the definition of women be but an essence?