Could we ban "transvestigating" threads on here?

[Christinapple]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5225715-ilona-maher

This one for example. Transvestigating is an informal term given to when people play detective and try to determine if a given person (usually a woman) is transgender or not from how they look e.g. photos.

I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans.

As well as being transphobic, IMO this harms all women and reinforces stereotypes of what men/women should look like. And the idea of obsessing over people's appearances like this just doesn't sit well with me.

To quote my late Nan…

You’re talking bollocks, Duck.

Some older essentialist trans-exclusionary brands of feminism

Surely your gender essence-based ideology is literally the most "essentialist" worldview here?

ButterflyHatched said
Do you think stuffing us into the ovens for them constitutes winning?

This is an abhorrent and untrue accusation to make towards women.

😂

Wow I cannot, literally cannot believe you have stooped this low.

Sex by deception and now minimalising the holocaust.

Vile.

Are you Jewish, @ButterflyHatched ?
Were any of your relatives actually stuffed into ovens?

Your repeated leveraging of Nazi Germany and the Holocaust for your own ends is utterly repulsive. Both to those of us who are Jewish and those of us who are not.

I won't report your comments, I'll let them stand for anyone reading this thread. They can make up their own minds about you.

Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but I keep think of Essence of Feminism as a kind of Christmas eau de toilette😂

The answer to this is very simple.

Words are easier than actions.

It's easier to waffle on about feminism than it is to actually practise it.

And for those who have chosen to make a career in waffling on about feminism (such as Judith Butler and Sally Hines), their livelihood literally depends on it being more complicated than, "Women are female people. Do we have equality yet? No? Well come on then, let's keep fighting for it."

But make no mistake. These academic "feminists" have done absolutely FUCK ALL to help actual women achieve real equality.

Feminism doesn't happen in humanities faculties of posh universities. It happens out in the real world. Which Judith (I pretend not to be a woman or even know what one is because being a woman is so basic but please listen to me wang on about feminism) Butler and Sally (I'd be completely unemployable in any real field) Hines plainly do not inhabit.

I'm sure we had almost a whole thread on that once! Didn't boiled make a few images? I'll try and find it.

The essence is here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5088498-adult-human-female-postbox-topper-against-the-spirit-of-postbox-toppers?reply=135787240&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

Wonderful thread! Love the suggestion that terf woman essence could be highly concentrated boiled piss😍

So British women should have defended Isla Bryson's presence in a women's prison, in case Americans voted in Trump? You sound increasingly unbalanced.

Ha.

Yes, there's some proper cultural imperialism going on here.

Earlier in the year I got kicked out of a US based parenting community for saying I don't agree that JK Rowling is a Nazi.

Even the most reasonable among them were saying that even if she does have some valid points she shouldn't express them because of the wider political climate in which LGBTQ people are persecuted and the fact that it plays into the hands of the far right who want to ban abortions and so on.

FFS. JK Rowling is a British woman who mainly posts about things happening in the UK. She's not responsible for your clusterfuck of a political system across the pond and she doesn't have to keep quiet about issues affecting women in her country just because feminism has failed in yours.

You'd think they'd have clocked by now that American cultural imperialism doesn't wash on here.

I’m picturing one of those fancy novelty-shaped Avon perfume decanters from the 70s but the perfume has been discarded and the decanter refilled with The Great Smell of Brut.

It's just the age old story. "Women(1), suck it up when the men(1) of your own side abuse you, because if you complain it weakens us against our enemies"

If Butters was really worried about trans issues being used as a wedge (which they undoubtably are), it's entirely within his(1) and other trans-identifying people's gift to defuse it utterly by allying with women(1) to find a solution for accommodating feelings of gender that does not involve appropriating and redefining the language, provisions and supports aligned to sex.

I even believe this is a better outcome for trans people as well, to explore what they really feel and really need and find their own space in society instead of forcing themselves to fit into some preexisting social boxes that were shaped by body sex overlaid by sexism.

But no, Butters and his cohort of TRAs place themselves in the position of victim by refusing to engage with any position other than getting exactly what they want and fuck whatever costs that brings to women(1) and children, and then leverage that self-imposed victimhood to justify why they must have what they do not in fact need, but simply greatly desire.

(1) original sex based meaning, obviously. No misgendering effected or intended.

I practice a form that has incorporated an extra four decades of careful consideration from insightful and courageous scholars, philosophers and activists.

And that is equal to millions of years of evolution, and societal developments? Really? You can type that without laughing?

I've just found my essence. It was down the back of the sofa, with a couple of hair grips and a 50p piece.

Ooo exciting! What are you going to buy with your new found riches? Assuming the essence was female, will it be lipstick? (Not that you can buy one for 50p!)

Isn't it ridiculous Flirts that we have to make such clarifying statements as your (1).

I have done this in the past and I know plenty of us on this board have. Because if someone has distorted language to such as degree that using specific words without the clarifying statements makes the overall statements mean something completely different from the intention.

I remember once having to write posts with the clarification of 'meaning a person with a body formed around the production of large gametes regardless of whether those gametes are being produced, have ever been produced or will ever be produced in the future' on each paragraph. It was ludicrous, but it in itself makes a very strong point about language.

Brut, classy. I was thinking more along the lines of sweaty unshaved armpit with a top note of gently toasted polyester bra🤔

I think a shark has definitely been jumped today.

Some older essentialist trans-exclusionary brands of feminism place themselves in an adversarial position where oppression is a resource war between male and female essence-bearers rather than a universal social issue that harms everyone it touches in different ways.

I practice a form that has incorporated an extra four decades of careful consideration from insightful and courageous scholars, philosophers and activists.

God I'm sick of having feminism and its history mansplained. Male 'feminists' are usually pretty ignorant, and have little understanding of the radical, fundamental importance of what girls and women, as a sex class, bring to feminist thinking and activism.

Male 'feminists' are usually pretty ignorant, and have little understanding of the radical, fundamental importance of what girls and women, as a sex class, bring to feminist thinking and activism.

Yes, something you always notice. They approach it like an intellectual exercise.

ButterflyHatched · Today 11:46

Do you think stuffing us into the ovens for them constitutes winning?

Torturing children, genocide and now that?? Jeez, your hyperbole is 9 miles high.