Could we ban "transvestigating" threads on here?

[Christinapple]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5225715-ilona-maher

This one for example. Transvestigating is an informal term given to when people play detective and try to determine if a given person (usually a woman) is transgender or not from how they look e.g. photos.

I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans.

As well as being transphobic, IMO this harms all women and reinforces stereotypes of what men/women should look like. And the idea of obsessing over people's appearances like this just doesn't sit well with me.

"laughing at the suffering of gender dysphoric children"

Is anyone laughing at the suffering of gender dysphoric children?? Or is this just a dishonest categorisation of what has been said on this thread?

Butterfly

You may not have used those precise words, but that was what you were trying to convey. It's a common TEZ trope, there are examples of it all over the internet.

BTW, have you got some videos for us to look at, of middle aged women scaring and intimidating poor transw?

Ok I'll remember that next time I see a wall of newspaper headlines demonising me or a wall of abuse on social media or yet another ray of hope stripped away by government policy or another update on hate crime statistics or another instance of everyday baseline social transphobia in the street or the workplace.

I'll remember when I'm called in again to justify the treatment I have been receiving all my adult life. I'll remember the next time I'm a political football in parliament. I'll remember the next time an election is fought over me. I'll remember the next time I'm the first thing that politicians drop. I'll remember as my legal protections once again come under concerted attack. I'll remember as international human rights orgs decry the UK for its treatment of trans people.

Why? Because I refuse to demurely purr as anti-trans activists tear my life apart, demonise me and ban the treatments that saved my life? Because I won't just turn a blind eye and say 'I got mine'? Because I'm actively challenging the tide of rampant misinformation about my own childhood?

I could write a reply mirroring your comment, but substituting all the problems encountered by biological women because of the activities of TRAs. But I wouldn't want to be so melodramatic.

Because you come across as a deeply unhappy person, who resents women, who claims to live in constant fear, and who lacks the reasoning skills and ability to empathise that one would normally expect a fully developed adult to be capable of.

I find the desperation to prevent more awkward inconvenient people like me from existing to be extremely telling. What if there were thousands of us able to demonstrably disprove reductive thought-terminators like 'we can always tell'?

We'd have to actually start engaging with the lived reality of non-trans passing trans women and what that says about essentialist variants of feminism rather than just attacking the tiny number of us who currently exist for daring to share their experiences.

Literally all women are saying is that you shouldn't have more rights and protections than we do.

Which you currently do.

More word salad.

But you do keep going on about how awful it is being trans. Surely that means it would be better not to be trans? For the number of trans people to be limited to the absolute minimum number of people for whom there really is no alternative?

I could write a reply mirroring your comment, but substituting all the problems encountered by biological women because of the activities of TRAs.

Butterfly is well aware of this, I think, hence the reversal.

No

Why? Because I refuse to demurely purr

No one is expecting you to purr, demurely or otherwise

But you have not 'disproved' 'we can always tell' at all.

You seem to think you have, but you really have not. And the very example you used included deceiving people, who may be very vulnerable, into having sex with someone they may perceive as being the opposite sex to what they materially are. Which is fucked up as evidence that 'people can't always tell', but you seem very proud of that example.

And the hyperbole, emotional manipulation and catastrophising just continues.

No one is preventing anyone from 'existing'.

And who is a 'non-trans passing trans women'? Who is non-trans and trans at the same time?

fuck no!

@ButterflyHatched

Ok I'll remember that next time I see a wall of newspaper headlines demonising me or a wall of abuse on social media or yet another ray of hope stripped away by government policy or another update on hate crime statistics or another instance of everyday baseline social transphobia in the street or the workplace.

U alright hun?

If the whole world has changed from telling you you are ok to telling you you are wrong, maybe, just maybe, you are actually wrong about this?

I get it made you feel better about yourself, but you know what? Lots of things that make some people feel better make other people feel worse.

"It made me happy" is not enough, you have to balance getting what you want with the impact on others, especially if getting what you want means taking someone from someone else.

People, mainly women (original sex based meaning) but also parents, gay men, doctors, legislators, the braver social commentators, they are all realising that what seemed like a small.accomodation to make sad men like yourself feel better about themselves and hopefully live happier lives as pretend women is actually a really big issue that is impacting women's safety, opportunities and autonomy all over the place, putting children and immature young people at emotional and medical risk, and increasingly making the law and politicians look an arse (and they really don't like that!)

Face it. You have been wrong about this. Your personal journey may have felt ok to you but the wider social repercussions of condoning cross sex identities are too damaging to too many people to let this continue.

Nobody is minimising or laughing at gender dysphoric children. We're universally horrified that these children are being used by transactivists. We're alarmed that there are adults with such little insight into child psychology / child development that they completely fail to recognise social contagion as an issue. We're frightened for these children that there are adults trying to influence them who display no understanding of child safeguarding or the need for children to give informed consent before giving up their future physical health, fertility and relationship opportunities.

And I suspect if you're a parent new to all this, you're seeing in real life the unrestrained demands of adult transactivists that children should be transitioned with zero insight or care for the long term consequences for children.
It must be quite a chilling sight.

Eh Butterfly you've got me really confused.

If no one can tell you are trans (to the point someone in a hospital thought you were pregnant according to you), how has your life been ruined because you are trans?

ButterflyHatched · Today 17:35

I find the desperation to prevent more awkward inconvenient people like me from existing to be extremely telling.

You might be taken more seriously, if you didn't make such a hyperbolic pantomime out of things. Nobody here wants you to not exist. Women just want you and other natal males to stay out of their spaces, which is in no way the same thing.

You seem to revel in misconceived victimhood.

In this sense it's a self limiting phenomenon. Because lobbying for the rights of males to have womens rights and access to women's services and spaces has consequences, and as soon as the consequences become clear, sunlight floods in.

In this way, every 'victory ' the TRAs have won has been like pulling another Jenga block out of an increasingly shoogly tower.

Its not a longterm viable movement. As we see more detransitioners, and more Isla Brysons, and more Mridul Wadhwas, more situations like that of the Darlington nurses, we see more and more people realise what 'TWAW ' actually means. How that impacts on children, and women, and society at large.

I think a lot of TRAs complaints about increasing 'transphobia' has actually just been a natural consequence of the public seeing all the things that feminists were warning about come to pass.

Give the issues sunlight. It's all we need, really.

Just a reminder that:

a) Butters is way too old to be anything like the current cohort of trans identifying adolescents (claims to be late gen X/early millennial so 41-47). The paediatric referrals we are talking about in 2024 are mostly female, have an high prevalence of austism/adhd and learned about gender transition from YouTube and TikTok. Children in the ‘looked after’ system are disproportionately represented.
They are very different to the children ‘The Dutch Protocol’ was intended for:

b) GnRHa drugs have far more negative effects on a female body than a male body, eg obesity & early onset osteoporosis to the point of physical disability.

c) Butters claimed transition timeline is all over the shop and not at all consistent with what is known about the history of paediatric gender medicine both in the U.K. and abroad.

See this previous thread for more details (I picked a relevant midway start point for the link)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5026968-no-more-puberty-blockers-for-children-from-the-nhs-reported-in-the-times?reply=133895434&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

Also, Butters has previously posted about the negative effects of transition on Butters overall systemic health (and that’s without the added complication of being blocked from tanner 2/3 or GnRHa catastrophic effects on female bodies).

Why would anyone actively promote a medical pathway that leads children to a future with the ‘Sword of Damocles’ hanging over them?

butters constantly twists what posters are saying and also says that posters are saying stuff they never said….theres a word for that 🤔

so i don’t really understand that I’m supposed to take everything they say about themselves as gospel truth when they have repeatedly shown on threads that they don’t tell the truth

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · Today 19:15

butters constantly twists what posters are saying and also says that posters are saying stuff they never said….theres a word for that

raiL?

BH also deflects instead of answering straightforward questions, when he knows the answer would reflect poorly on the ideology. If pressed, he claims that he did give an answer.

This is exactly what has happened.

Or the answer was worded so poorly and in amongst emotional sparple that it was not readily recognisable as an answer and typically needs further clarification. Which either doesn't happen or what is said doesn't answer the question at all, or is again hidden in emotional sparple and the cycle goes on with claims of being abused when people use words that the poster doesn't like, such as 'male people.'

Tbh all I see in their posts is ‘me me me me me me me’

Any posts that dare to steer away from Butters main character syndrome just gets a word salad which still just says ‘it’s all about meeeeeeeeeeeee’