Could we ban "transvestigating" threads on here?

[Christinapple]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5225715-ilona-maher

This one for example. Transvestigating is an informal term given to when people play detective and try to determine if a given person (usually a woman) is transgender or not from how they look e.g. photos.

I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans.

As well as being transphobic, IMO this harms all women and reinforces stereotypes of what men/women should look like. And the idea of obsessing over people's appearances like this just doesn't sit well with me.

though it has made me contemplate the possible presence of a significant beer gut. 😂

That is what came to my mind too. 😂😂 Not that I could see how that and a pregnant belly could be mistaken.

I don’t know but the only trans person killed in the last year seems to have been killed by another trans person (trial pending).

'Cis' reminds me of 'sissy porn', which as we know is heavily used by some men.

'Sissy' is a derogatory term for 'effeminate'.

Some males enjoy dressing as women because they perceive it to be humiliating to 'degrade' themselves. This also reveals the inherent misogyny of 'gender'.

A reminder that some people derive satisfaction from being humiliated. Any supply will do. Negative attention is as good as any other.

I'm very pleased for you. It's great not to be routinely misgendered in daily life isn't it?

Most of us couldn’t care less if we were misgendered because we know what we are. I constantly have TRAs on Twitter referring to me as a man thinking it will upset me. Nope.

I was consistently missexed for nearly a decade. It is not an unfamiliar experience for non-conforming female people.

I wouldn't really care much if I were!

But you really haven't answered my question. It doesn't happen to me or even my 5'10'' friends with very short hair and very broad shoulders. I suppose our mannerisms and presentation aren't very normative either. We're all a bit, well, dykey.

How did it manage to happen to your OFAB friends but not you? I'm honestly curious.

The thing is, I’m actually pretty feminine looking. They do it because they think it’ll hurt me in some way, not realising I’m very comfortable with who I am and couldn’t care less about being called a man. It seems they’re fine with misgendering when it suits!

I'm almost jealous, I'm pretty masculine and it doesn't happen to me!

I must be doing something wrong 😕

Just a reminder for those reading along with this thread.

The term 'cis' is meaningless because the term includes any male person who has a DSD yet has a body that is **formed around the production of small gametes that has any degree of sensitivity to any of the testosterone that body produces.

There is no word left for female people.

Because even male people are now saying they are also ‘female’ . When ^^ female means only a person of the sex category where that person's body has been formed around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether the body does, has or ever will produce those large gametes. ie that requires the presence of ovaries or ovarian tissue - never testes.

In fact, we now have examples of many male people declaring that they are female people. So even the word for female has become meaningless in that sense.

But 'cis' is a* *word that was repurposed from its original usage and is meaningless for the purpose of discussing female people in its current usage. It has been used in academic papers as well in an attempt at using inclusive language which then renders the papers meaningless because the term is not describing a unique grouping of human bodies, even when it claims to be doing just that.

To see how this works, we have been told that 'girl' and 'woman' both now include:

1 Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **.
2 Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.
3 And any person who has a female body ^^.

Under the label of 'girl' and 'woman', extreme transgender activists have been telling us for years that those labels break down into two types of girls or women:

Cis and Transwomen/transgirls.

These terms mean:
Cis
= (1) Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **
and
= (3) Any person who has a female body^^
Trans
= (2) Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.

Therefore there is no unique word to mean female people who have a body ^^ formed around the production of large gametes.

Cis is meaningless as a unique description for female people and it always was. It is also misogynistic because it leaves female people with no unique word for their needs.

Well they’ve got me marked as a terf on Twitter so they like to clap back at any points I make by calling me a man which is an interesting choice.

I've had the immense privilege of being involved in the upbringing of some absolutely amazing (if often rather challenging) kids.

Whole, healthy bodies are a wonderful thing. It must be amazing to have one; to live your entire life where it isn't a constant shadow hanging over you; where it isn't just another weapon to be used against you.

Mine was never going to fully develop into one of those, even if I received no treatment or intervention at all. Iiving with that has given me a rather sober perspective on the supposed miraculous sanctity of nature.

Try asking a clinician for directions, saying you are here for an ultrasound scan.

I love this.😂😂
Proof (not that any is needed) of how completely divorced someone is from the reality of women's lives.

I'm afraid I don't drink and I lead an active and healthy life - but I am enjoying the slowly growing ButterflyHatched deep lore and what it says about the assumptions being made here.

I thought all women on MN could tell a male from a female just by looking at them or observing their walk?

Since you're here now @ButterflyHatched any response to my earlier question of what you mean by "visibly trans"?

Nope. Still no reason you would assume it was a pregnancy scan as opposed to eg cardiology.

After a few years of teaching yourself how to read the electromagnetic fields produced by particular groupings of neurons, you learn to see directly into the cell nucleus and identify individual chromosomes. With dedication and intense practice you are able to identify individual alleles. It is rumoured that certain Ultras are even able to identify individual base pairs.

I agree.

And yet...

Plenty of ‘fawning’ on utube too over mtf
Majority of comments by women
Unreal- why do they do the ‘fab hun’
‘ such a sweetheart’ type comments
How do they know????

I replied politely to one of the mtf and got a really nasty response- utube didn’t delete their comment
Funny that

In this case, identifiable as a person who has historically received gender affirming treatment through the existence of residual physiological 'tells'.

The body is not the problem ( unless it is obviously dysfunctional), it is the mind's attitude towards it.

Nature is just what it is...perfect in its own form.........and whether we like it or not we don't get a choice about our sex. Sex is recorded in every cell and in the vast majority of individuals also has pre-determined external manifestations. Not everything in life is about personal freedom and choice; and some things are simply our fate - as in the conditions we have to contend with.

I can see posters are focusing heavily on you, and that this might seem like an unfair ask, but I'd still love to know how those OFAB friends of yours were determined to be men by others while in your presence.

I don't believe any person has credibly stated that 100% of women can accurately sex male people 100% of the time. Have they? Please point out who has said this.

Or is it that people state that female people are highly likely that they can accurately sex a male person through interaction in real life?