The Democrats Need an Honest Conversation on Gender Identity

[Ingenieur]

An interesting article in The Atlantic today, and a sign the tide might be turning in the USA.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/11/democrats-dishonest-gender-conversation-2024-election/680604/

Most voters think that biological sex is real, and that it matters in law and policy. Instructing them to believe otherwise, and not to ask any questions, is a doomed strategy. By shedding their most extreme positions, the Democrats will be better placed to defend transgender Americans who want to live their lives in peace.

Baby steps

I believe there are lots of people who aren't so bothered about women's rights and child protection as they are by the blatant denial of material reality and the attempts to denigrate or even prosecute anyone who uses words to describe material reality.

Can you see how that affects all issues?

@EyeofOrion articles in The Times and on X, you can search for them. I presume you're not into brainwashing children?

I beg your pardon?

They don’t say it as sound bites. They say it as a serious opinion re something that happens in real life and we are concerned about for our daughters. Many many women and girl athletes have spoken up, nice to know you dont care about fairness or safety in womens sports. i would not have voted trump but the democrats were so wrong on this one.

Why is there always one asshole derailer? Can't we just have a conversation without some random coming along and being intimidated by women speaking.

Not a derail. And why call another woman an asshole? What’s wrong with this kind of conversation? If you don’t like it, just ignore it.

Do you understand what I mean, though, by soundbites? It’s a phrase that even your great-aunt’s hairdresser’s grandma knows. No-one even knew this phrase four years or so ago, then use of it jumped exponentially. There is a reason for that, and it isn’t because there are thousands of men invading women’s sports.

So blaming the Democrats here is erroneous.

Sound bites are short very memorable phrases, not really anything to do with your grandma. Of course discussion on this topic has jumped- that discussion in the uk parliament (House of Lords?) very recently stated there have been 900 and something medals in women’s sports awarded to transwomen. In the uk. Thousands would be a reasonable number to use, and the impact of each one is disproportionate as it impacts everyone in their team and in the teams they play against. Thats why the public discourse has grown. Of course there are bad actors and politicians have always subverted topics for their own campaign position but the issue is real, has been growing rapidly and pretending it’s all fake politics will not make it go away.

I was at a conference in the summer where a social scientist was advising healthcare providers and scientists. She said that male puberty doesn't give any advantages to men participating female sports. This is a massive problem, a social scientist has no place giving scientists a biology lesson. The wrong people are in positions of power indoctrinating people.

I’m not American and am still learning about this, but from what I understand, by Democrats not fully acknowledging that biological sex can’t change through surgery or self-ID alone, the rights at risk might be:

The right to privacy in female-only spaces like bathrooms, changing rooms, and shelters. Many women expect privacy and safety in these spaces, and allowing self-ID could make some feel vulnerable, especially if the person still has male anatomy.

The right to fair competition in women’s sports. Title IX was created to protect equal opportunities for girls and women, including sex-based categories to ensure fairness. Transgender women who’ve gone through male puberty may retain physical advantages, impacting a level playing field (as has been shown on a number of occasions now).

The right to freedom of association. Some women want female-only spaces for empowerment and solidarity.

I respect everyone’s right to live authentically, but think policies should better balance these rights with women’s comfort, safety, and fairness. The Democratic stance felt ambiguous on this issue, leaving many who do not buy into the concept of gender ideology concerned that these rights may not be clearly defined and protected.

The above of course would affect all biological females, adult or child, in answer to your question.

I don’t think Trump got in because people think he is a good thing for women’s rights. I think it was because of the economy. Being able to afford the grocery bill tends to trump most other considerations. Getting re-elected during high inflation is not easy because everyone is feeling worse off.

It's unbelievable that the dems adopted a policy on women's vs trans rights that favoured a tiny minority rather than 51 percent of the population. Especially in such a closely run election where even a small percentage of women staying away could (and possibly did) make a difference.

They will be forced to rethink over the next term. More and more surgically transitioned young people are reaching adulthood and outgrowing their trans identity. Their voices will grow louder and I think that the medical scandal aspect will be undeniable.

I think more and more people are just getting utterly fed up with the utter bullshit of gender identity politics. Has any politician here and in the USA defined what gender identity is ? My guess is not because it seems to be based on outdated stereotypes.

Thank you, and thank you for the lack of snark in your reply. I appreciate it 🙂

I think if you try to tell people men can become women and that they are personally to blame for Jim Crow laws and slavery they are not going to believe you when you try to explain that inflation will be even higher under Trump's economic plan

I think that if you are a swing, undecided or insufficiently committed to either side voter already, then you are not going to be swayed by the big issues such as the economy or immigration, because they haven’t already determined your vote.
However, you may well be swayed by relatively minor issues that align with your core beliefs, and prioritise those accordingly. You may care about the right to abortion and associated reproductive healthcare, but you may care more about the harms caused by transgender ideology, particularly their impact on gender distressed children (drugs and mutilation) and women’s rights to safety, dignity, privacy and fair competition in sport. You may reluctantly vote for one party or the other, or simply opt out and stay at home on polling day.

In Britain, many people spoiled their ballots rather than vote for a candidate or party they couldn't be confident in. I'm sure similar happened in the U.S....and alongside them, many just didn't vote at all.

Def agree on first part- but what do you mean they were blamed for slavery & Jim Crow?

Wow! He really wasn't prepared to let him speak at all, was he? Total denial. It is a form of brainwashing; so existential in nature; and on which so much hinges.
What was his name and role.....I didn't catch that?

Interesting analysis of what influenced especially swing/ undecided voters. Also Democrats must take a careful look at why there was such a drop in turnout from 2020 election.

O.K! Jay Michaelson - author of 'Gays versus God'

I can't see Labour, Lib Dems or Greens changing their stance on this.

Thanks for the screenshot, but it has come out too blurry to read. Would you mind reposting?

Interesting. So you would vote for a party that was openly racist if they were your "best fit" on everything else?

I wouldn't, and neither would I vote for an openly sexist party.

Remember, it's not the votes that Trump gained that won this for him, it's the votes the Democrats lost. The downswing for the Dems didn't transfer 100% or even 50% to Trump so a lot of people just didn't vote.

If the Dems had kept those people they would not have lost.

So focusing on what Trump offered is missing the point. The significant question is what did the Dems do that turned voters away.

Dunno if the Democrats need an honest conversation as much as they need a quiet pivot.

Vocally supporting policies that many of their own voters see as obviously stupid can only weaken a political party. It makes their own voters question the party's competence and its ability to enact the policies that they do support. But so does admitting a big mistake. Quietly dropping the most obviously stupid bits and claiming to have been sensible all along is where it's at.

(I can't see how influential the Democrat's gender policies were on the election result, the screenshot is illegible.)