The Democrats Need an Honest Conversation on Gender Identity

[Ingenieur]

An interesting article in The Atlantic today, and a sign the tide might be turning in the USA.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/11/democrats-dishonest-gender-conversation-2024-election/680604/

Most voters think that biological sex is real, and that it matters in law and policy. Instructing them to believe otherwise, and not to ask any questions, is a doomed strategy. By shedding their most extreme positions, the Democrats will be better placed to defend transgender Americans who want to live their lives in peace.

Baby steps

I've been seeing similar for the last few days. I think A LOT of votes were lost on this issue.

It wasn't necessary that these voters decided for Trump. It was just that they couldn't vote for Harris.

It's not surprising though in context, Biden made it his 'day one' mission to destroy women's sport so that males with transgender identities could compete as women and girls. This can't be seen by anyone reasonable as anything other than an attack on women's rights. In addition to the visual representations of males like Lia Thomas and KJK shouting 'It's a man' into the swim meets which gave Riley Gaines the confidence to have a platform to speak out for female athletes, there were the tales of voyeurism in changing rooms, not to mention (horrifically) the broken skulls and other injuries. Then you had Imane Khalief, the eventual poster person for the Trump campaign, literally beating up women in the name of sport.

Then you have Dylan Mulvaney receiving a letter from Harris congratulating them on their 365 day of living 'authentically' as a 'woman' when women realised that they can never gain such presidential respect because they hadn't been born male. What was that about being the most oppressed? And then the TRA breast fondling of the another of 'the most oppressed', when in other times and if they hadn't have 'identified as a woman' they would have been removed for indecent exposure.

Then there's the kids and the surgeries and the mastectomy scars being applauded and the kids who get pronouns wrong being punished in schools.

And the rapes in women's prisons and toilets and the wi-spa incident and all of the other awful things that have happened by making a group of people the most protected on the planet simply on the basis that they 'identify'

People have just had enough, this continued lie that trans identifying people are the most oppressed when in fact they are the most privileged because they get extra rights and even presidential praise is just enough to make most think no thank you. Especially if they have children. It's just gone too far.

If you only vote on a single policy you will get burnt. You have to get a "best fit"

1. A lot of democrats failed to vote at all due to this single issue that profoundly affects the lives of women and children. That affected the outcome. Presumably in the hope that the Democrats will finally start to realise it is harmful to 51 % of the population.
2. This single policy for some will be the single most important issue because it has profound impacts on lives.

A lot has been said on this in the last week. Already there are plenty of people in denial who I doubt will listen.

Yes it's nice the political parties are beginning to wake up to this, they can no longer palm it off as a minor issue. This honesty is something I'd have thought completely unbelievable only 6 months ago.

It is completely unbelievable.

The President of the United States set out, as his first objective, to destroy fair sport for women.

Yet thought himself to be progressive.

You literally could not make it up.

It might be a single policy, but it has multiple consequences.

I don't doubt that there are plenty of die-hards who have gone all-in. Riley Gaines posted a recent example of a wilful blindness that exists

https://x.com/Riley_Gaines_/status/1855115295230152824

However, it now seems clear even to the Americans that it's a vote-loser more so than at any point in the last 5 years.

I hope the momentum keeps up.

And not to mention the fact that they called anyone who objected bigots.

Women and girls were silenced on issues that impact their lives.

Democracy was one of the major reasons Trump was elected which, given that he amounted an insurrection, is pretty fucking unbelievable.

People really don't want to be called bigots or silenced for speaking out for the rights of women and children, yet that's what the Democrats supported.

I've seen many articles with American women not wanting their children brainwashed and taken from them. None wanted Trump, but at least he was against brainwashing their children.

This gender bollocks is entirely why I spoilt my ballot, UK, aged post 60.

I think Keir et al need to get with the program.

That man just talking over him 😡😡

Can you post one?

Can you outline the specific rights of both women of children that were being threatened by a Democratic win?

I think Keir et al need to get with the program.

And all UK Parties: male puberty - no place in female sport as a starter. I hope then the rest will follow. And no I am not a transphobe.

To add - it's the greatest pity that issue has become so politicised. It isn't really a matter of left vs. right.

No. There are necessary and sufficient conditions, philosophically. For example, it is a necessary condition for a political party to get my vote that they are pro-choice. It isn't a sufficient condition. I won't vote for an anti-choice party but I could vote for any number of parties that are pro-choice.

That's completely logical and unproblematic. If other women choose this as the hill they die on, that's their choice.

Please start your own thread if you'd like to discuss off topic, I'd prefer this post to not be derailed.

You are correct. The public really only say soundbites like ‘No men in women’s sport’ (although the occurrence of such is minuscule) because they’ve read them endlessly in media, and then repeat them mindlessly.

Then they vote for someone like Trump on the basis of that tiny issue, and then find their healthcare - a much bigger issue - is wiped out.

Dear God. That absolute wanker talking over the man was bad enough, but the host also had to walk on eggshells

Yeah, I don't think men beating the crap out of women in the Olympics would be called minuscule by anyone's standards

The Communist Party doesn't think men can become/be women btw.

Yeah, I don't think men beating the crap out of women in the Olympics would be called minuscule by anyone's standards

This. Men beating women while being cheered on, smirking as they do it, being given medals for doing it, being given Vogue spreads for doing it, carried on shoulders like conquering heroes?

It's not tiny.

😂 Translation: I don’t want this uncomfortable issue discussed.

I don’t see how it’s a derail. It’s about the election. It’s regarding gender.

Not at all, start your own thread and we can discuss what you want to talk about.