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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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32
TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 20:20

Hmm still waiting on all that misinformation to be highlighted ...

Boiledbeetle · 04/11/2024 20:25

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 20:20

Hmm still waiting on all that misinformation to be highlighted ...

There was apparently lots of errors so you'd have thought at least some of them as examples would have been easy for the poster who spotted them, considering we missed them, to just cut and paste quickly into a post.

birdiesings · 04/11/2024 20:26

This is neither an utterly vile thread, nor a thread about a woman.

What is utterly vile is the Olympic's lily-livered stance that saw several young women get punched in the face by a fully grown man with XY chromosomes and typical male levels of testosterone.

Interesting that it's never those women they care about, must be something different about them...

YesterdaysFuture · 04/11/2024 20:27

One of the few cases of someone actually being assigned the wrong sex at birth. Khelif was incorrectly assigned female at birth.

YouAreOne · 04/11/2024 20:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NotBadConsidering · 04/11/2024 20:33

Oh, look, here’s a real news organisation reporting that the line in a Trump ad “men could beat up women and win medals” is a lie that they themselves, such a prestigious group of journalists, have debunked:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/04/trumps-closing-ad-features-debunked-claim-about-olympic-boxer/

This is the reality of when supposedly proper news organisations report on sex and gender: they lie. I’d like to think they will acknowledge their error and apologise for spreading misinformation themselves, but I know that’s a fantasy.

OvaHere · 04/11/2024 20:36

annejumps · 04/11/2024 19:40

what the patriarchy clearly wants which is females not boxing for sport

Oh, they will still need some female athletes for the male athletes to easily beat.

It strikes me as the modern version of Roman Colosseums. Throwing someone in with a Lion and acting like it's a fair fight for entertainment.

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 20:41

I'm not sure why people are looking for 'reputable sources' here, when the so called 'reputable sources' have been lying their arses off on this particular topic.

OvaHere · 04/11/2024 20:45

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 20:41

I'm not sure why people are looking for 'reputable sources' here, when the so called 'reputable sources' have been lying their arses off on this particular topic.

Quite. What we once thought to be reputable sources turned out to be anything but.

BecauseRonald · 04/11/2024 20:45

The MRA contributions to this thread have been frankly underwhelming.

<taps fingers whilst waiting for the alleged errors on the Reduxx article to be pointed out>

TheKeatingFive · 04/11/2024 20:48

BecauseRonald · 04/11/2024 20:45

The MRA contributions to this thread have been frankly underwhelming.

<taps fingers whilst waiting for the alleged errors on the Reduxx article to be pointed out>

They're losing their fire. No question 😆

Maaate · 04/11/2024 21:38

Love this 🫣😂

Imane Khelif medical report reported in Reduxx
OvaHere · 04/11/2024 21:54

Maaate · 04/11/2024 21:38

Love this 🫣😂

No lies told here. Honestly some of these men are pathetic. Oh no a cheek swab, the indignity.

annejumps · 04/11/2024 22:00

I finally started supporting Reduxx on Patreon for this.

SoiledMyselfDuringSomeTurbulence · 04/11/2024 22:09

OvaHere · 04/11/2024 21:54

No lies told here. Honestly some of these men are pathetic. Oh no a cheek swab, the indignity.

And again, I have to point out that being an elite Olympic athlete means people watching you piss, at short notice, for the whole of your career. Those are the WADA rules. The tester has to be able to see the urine leave the body. One cheek swab seems positively private in comparison.

OvaHere · 04/11/2024 22:20

SoiledMyselfDuringSomeTurbulence · 04/11/2024 22:09

And again, I have to point out that being an elite Olympic athlete means people watching you piss, at short notice, for the whole of your career. Those are the WADA rules. The tester has to be able to see the urine leave the body. One cheek swab seems positively private in comparison.

I think for a certain type of man indignity = not being allowed to do whatever I want and people having the audacity to question me.

ladygindiva · 04/11/2024 22:38

lifeturnsonadime · 04/11/2024 11:26

Everyone KNEW this. Everyone and they didn't give a shit because women don't matter enough.

This . So true.

Helleofabore · 04/11/2024 22:48

Maaate · 04/11/2024 21:38

Love this 🫣😂

This is so very very true!

Barbie222 · 04/11/2024 23:10

It's time for IK to give back the medal and apologise. That would be the right thing to do.

annejumps · 04/11/2024 23:16

Semenya should give everything back and apologize too but that ain't happening either.

kiterunning · 04/11/2024 23:17

< faints >
Gets up and waves frantically at any media outlet that cares about the truth.

Melroses · 04/11/2024 23:29

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CosMIBSIdix/
The training video is still there.

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CosMIBSIdix

Sooz41 · 04/11/2024 23:56

We are witnessing the Festinger effect in action. In the face of all evidence (including the evidence of their own eyes) they are doubling down. There could never be enough proof for them. Even if their most palatable mainstream media outlet confirms the facts then adherents will either claim persecution by way of scrutiny or shift the goalposts and say they never cared about the facts as they didn't matter anyway. This is not an issue of science or logic but of belief. And people want to appear consistent with their previous statements. They will be disinclined to publicly admit they were mistaken and that they have effectively supported a man beating a woman on the international stage for the purposes of entertainment whilst nobody with sufficient influence lifted a finger to help.

monkeyspaw · 05/11/2024 02:15

MarieDeGournay · 04/11/2024 13:31

I agree with you. I've always had more sympathy for IK than Caster Semenya.

The medical report states that IK identifies 'pleinement', totally, as female, he has never thought of himself as male.
To the poster who wondered how he could think that if he had testicles - the medical report says that the are undescended testicles, only identified by an MRI. So IK didn't have what he, or his family, would have perceived as male genitalia. So I believe that IK and his family genuinely thought he was a girl, and even though his body changed during puberty - hence the unfair advantage in the boxing ring - he still didn't have male genitalia.

Outside of the ring, he presents as a quietly spoken person and he has mannerisms that are consistent with having been brought up as a girl - he doesn't do the 'do it like a dude' public bravado of Caster Semenya.

I agree that he was ' ill-used' because his prowess in the ring was highly politicised and he got state support and subsidies to go to Paris to get Algeria a gold medal, no ifs, buts, or biological facts could get in the way. He was/is a big sporting icon in his country

Of course he should have called a halt to it all when he got the medical reports about his 'chromosomal abnormalities', but everybody around him was egging him on to ignore it and get that gold medal, of course you're a woman, a proud Algerian women, don't listen to those nasty enemies of Algeria- Morocco was blamed at the time! - we'll sue them for saying you're not a woman.

He wasn't brave enough to say no, no to the Algerian Olympic Council, no to his family, no the the President of Algeria, no, this all has to stop, it's cheating, let me go back to obscurity and poverty and somehow I'll work out who and what I am...
I'm not sure I'd be that brave either, to be honest.

He didn't get the testing he needed as a baby to identify that he is in fact male; he didn't get the treatment he needed as a child to clarify his sex; he didn't get the support he needed when he found out that he is not female; he was manipulated by political and sporting bodies; now his medical records have been made public.

The real victims, in sporting terms, are the women who were forced to fight against a man in the Olympics, and who were cheated out of medals.
But I also feel sorry for IK.

You're very kind, and your empathy does you credit.
BUT, as was pointed out to me by my Muslim friend:

Imane Khelif is Muslim. He says he is a woman.
He is almost exclusively photographed wearing men's suits/clothing. It is haram in Islam to wear clothing of the other sex. I'm sorry, but he DOES "do it like a dude"
He has been repeatedly photographed on his male trainers shoulders wearing his boxing shorts with his genitals pressed against the male trainers neck. This would absolutely not be possible if he or any of his circle thought he was female. Even very, very liberal Muslims would not do this.

Guidelines of practicing sports in Islam for women include the following:

  • Engaging in sport should be far removed from the eyes of men, whether they are trainers, teachers, students, administrators or spectators. In order to fulfil this condition, it is not permissible to take pictures of women’s sport, so that they will not fall into the hands of men who will look at them, which would be contrary to the condition which makes it permissible for women to engage in that sport.
  • The game should not involve physical fighting where the face or head are struck.

He cannot be both a faithful Muslim and a woman behaving the way he behaves, and the way all his support staff behave.

Maerchentante · 05/11/2024 05:49

Melroses · 04/11/2024 23:29

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CosMIBSIdix/
The training video is still there.

That video is so very telling, surprised it hasn't been removed.