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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Bindel following where FWR lead?

91 replies

IwantToRetire · 20/10/2024 01:37

Is it time for feminists to turn to the Tories?
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-it-time-for-feminists-to-turn-to-the-tories/

JB seems to have only just caught up with what has been an active discussion on FWR not only in the lead up to the election but for months before.

Never quite sure why papers, blogs etc., bother with chasing "names" to write for them, when they could just publish the link to one of the many relevent and thought leading threads on FWR!

Can be read in full at Is it time for feminists to turn to the Tories? | The Spectator

Is it time for feminists to turn to the Tories?

Should feminists like me hold their nose and team up with the Tories? It's a dilemma many of those concerned about the transgender debate face

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-it-time-for-feminists-to-turn-to-the-tories

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 20/10/2024 11:31

It's not just on FWR that women have had these discussions, though. They're having them elsewhere - on X, on Facebook, on WhatsApp groups and in real life. Julie isn't so much following FWR's lead as writing about a trend that she's been observing among feminists for some time.

username3678 · 20/10/2024 11:49

@Sailonsilverrgirl

What do you mean, is that all you've got? They were in government for 14 years so it should be pretty easy to list how they've improved the lives of women in that time.

The cognitive dissonance around this issue is astounding. Under the Tories Trans ideology infiltrated all public institutions such as schools, the NHS, Social services and prisons. If you mention it, you're derailing the thread.

Theresa May wanted to bring in self ID. Let's not forget Maria Miller's proposals which included self ID for 16 year olds and permitted men to access single sex including refuges. Responding to criticism with,

The only negative reaction that I’ve seen has been by individuals purporting to be feminists.

There was no criticism from the Tories about her ludicrous report. In fact Gillian Keegan argued that men were women,

I personally believe if you have gone to that level of, you have got the gender recognition, you have got the reassignment, then you are legally and medically allowed to say that you are a woman

Alicia Kearns campaigned to ban 'conversion therapy'. Badenoch paid lip service to GC beliefs but it's obvious that she isn't a feminist and she changed nothing while in power. Just as Trump isn't a feminist and Farage isn't a feminist, they're just anti Trans or 'woke'.

Theresa May plans to let people change gender without medical checks

Speaking at Pink News awards dinner, prime minister reiterates her commitment to improving trans rights

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks

Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 11:57

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username3678 · 20/10/2024 12:05

@Sailonsilverrgirl

Of course! Mentioning the fact that a presiding government allowed Stonewall unprecedented power is disengenuous.

Silly me. The Tories couldn't help but support them, they had absolutely no choice. Marie Miller had no choice but to create proposals allowing men into women's refuges. Theresa May had no choice but to propose self ID and Badenoch had no choice but to sit on her hands.

Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 12:13

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TempestTost · 20/10/2024 12:15

So someone writes a post saying that it was important that the Conservatives commissioned the Cass report - which is true, it is important. So much that has happened since to push back on GI depends on the Cass report.

Even the little changes in the Labour Party with regard to GI, notably Streeting's change of heart (let's give him the benefit of the doubt that's what it is, and in fact I think that's probably true,) depends on the Cass report.

And the response is "what have the Conservatives done for women?"

Well, clearly, they commissioned the Cass report. What a bizarre comment.

The other major difference between them and Labout was this: while the whole western world was being bamboozled by TRAs, who had was was clearly a very effective strategy that went under the radar until it was almost too late, the Tories allowed dissent and discussion within their own party. Unlike Labour who were too far up their own arses to even anyone to ask a question about something they had decided was righteous.

So that's something else they did for women - they actually allowed them to talk and listened to what they said and engaged in the discussion.

Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 12:19

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TempestTost · 20/10/2024 12:22

It's not like we saw SW being opposed by.... the Official Opposition.

As of now, Labour are fully aligned with SW, and the Tories aren't.

The Tories did drop the ball on this (not just SW but the move to allowing such influence by extra governmental powers.) in large part I think because they became embarrassed to be seen to take a conservative approach. This has been a tendency in government, across parties, for some time, but it fits more with a left wing approach - the idea of collective action but used within the context of identity politics and other special interests. It's not an approach that should fit within a conservative political practice, but it's become normative. They should have pushed back on that but the influence of that approach has been very culturally overwhelming, and also when they did, I think they felt it made them look bad.

They seem now to see what systemic problems it's created within public institutions, so as the opposition one hopes they will be on that.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 20/10/2024 12:23

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 20/10/2024 10:02

It's a cross party issue. Every party has its proponents of 'gender ideology', and every party has 'gender critical' proponents.

This. As between the two main parties, this is a non-partisan issue, because they are both broadly socially liberal and happy to help the underdog if it costs nothing. Blair gave us the GRA: Cameron, same-sex marriage.

How could anyone object?

We don't have to vote Tory - and we won't get the chance for a while. But they're the official opposition and it's their job to attack the government on any grounds they can. This topic is tailor-made for it.

TempestTost · 20/10/2024 12:25

Sorry for all the typos, btw - I think my keyboard is shot. Might be time for a new laptop.

username3678 · 20/10/2024 12:26

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tumbleweed GIF

Great question.

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 20/10/2024 12:44

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The Education guidelines. The Cass Report. Brought a Section 35 against the Scottish govt's Gender Recognition Bill. Refused to bring in self ID (Truss).

Of course, May also promised to bring in self ID, and Caroline Nokes and Maria Millar were horrendous on the WESC.

Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 12:44

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HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 20/10/2024 12:47

Again: it's a cross party issue. It's complex, long-running, and constantly changing depending on context. It's absolutely absurd to try and suggest that one party is wholly TWAW or otherwise, and it's very tedious to listen to people bang on about how terrible the other party is/has been/will be.

It's just more pointless tribalism that is undermining faith in politics and democracy.

Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 12:50

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Keeptoiletssafe · 20/10/2024 14:17

Unfortunately Kemi Badenoch has made the single sex toilet situation worse in many cases, though still proclaiming she made it better. She does not understand or is ignoring the consequences of the toilet designs her department oversaw during the toilet consultations that led to ‘Document T’ for public/office toilets. The ARUP document her ‘Levelling Up’ department commissioned to look at toilet design is a disgrace for safeguarding.

There is a tweet just before the general election that Kemi Badenoch posted of a thankyou card where a woman was thanking her and voting Conservative in the general election. The card from the woman discussed how she had been attacked in public toilets by two men in separate incidents - one of which had tried to bash the door down.

The new designs will make it worse. They rely much more on a perpetrator restraining themselves because a victim has less chance.

The new designs in Document T are more dangerous (than the traditional single sex toilets with gaps under and over the doors/partitions) as even the single sex ones can use the fully enclosed unisex design and are openable from the outside (even when ‘locked’) because of this enclosure. So there’s no need to bash the door down. And ‘perfect’ privacy so the perpetrator can hide in a next door cubicle beforehand, the woman occupant has no warning beforehand of the perpetrator letting themselves in and there is no worry of witnesses as they are private - a great incentive for crime.

Despite pointing out these flaws in the consultation process, evidence of real life stories and data, writing to Kemi Badenoch, other MPs and departments, the designs are unchanged. We then have the Department of Education stipulating this enclosed toilet design for single sex toilets in secondary schools (Dec 2023). That document, under the conservatives, completely ignores safety and health in the toilet section - the words are not mentioned. This is in contrast to the rest of the document where the words safe and safety are mentioned as the priority to a school building/refurbishment programme.

So it’s all well and good saying you want single sex spaces and do two public consultations on toilets but you ignore the warnings to then come up with a ‘solution’ that is more dangerous for everyone (including those collapsing unseen inside the enclosed cubicles through medical conditions/illness/spiking/other drugs/smoke etc) then you are doing more harm than good. FWIW I know several people discussed problems, including a charity, but none of these responses appeared on the write up consultation analysis. Our responses were absolutely ignored - I know because I have the evidence of omission.

To Labour - it would be such an easy fix to save lives and prevent assaults and other crimes. Stipulate door gaps in single sex designs of public toilets and school toilets. Provide a degree of visibility at feet level at least so you can see if someone is in trouble. Safeguarding the vulnerable. If you are unsure, just look at the evidence of what happens in public toilets when you enclose them. It does not matter what ‘sign’ is on the door because criminals don’t take notice. And any medical event certainly doesn’t.

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/10/2024 15:17

username3678 · 20/10/2024 12:05

@Sailonsilverrgirl

Of course! Mentioning the fact that a presiding government allowed Stonewall unprecedented power is disengenuous.

Silly me. The Tories couldn't help but support them, they had absolutely no choice. Marie Miller had no choice but to create proposals allowing men into women's refuges. Theresa May had no choice but to propose self ID and Badenoch had no choice but to sit on her hands.

We all know the above...........Gender Ideology has been pervasive across society; Though inthe last several years - since women have forced the debate and in doing so raised consciousness across society - it is only members of the Tory party who have openly spoken up in defence of women's sex based protections, and it was the Tories that blocked Self Id, then blocked the scottish GRA and then commissioned the Cass Review.

Had it been Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens - we'd have Self Id already - and women would have continued to be silenced and labelled as hate mongers.

Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 15:27

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Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 15:28

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Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 15:31

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Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 15:33

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Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 15:35

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Signalbox · 20/10/2024 15:59

but this thread is about. JB's view that feminists should turn to the Tories.

Except nowhere in her article does she say that feminists should turn to the Tories.

ThisBluntPlumDreamer · 20/10/2024 16:19

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 15:59

but this thread is about. JB's view that feminists should turn to the Tories.

Except nowhere in her article does she say that feminists should turn to the Tories.

Another great instance of Betteridge's law: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."

username3678 · 20/10/2024 16:24

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/10/2024 15:17

We all know the above...........Gender Ideology has been pervasive across society; Though inthe last several years - since women have forced the debate and in doing so raised consciousness across society - it is only members of the Tory party who have openly spoken up in defence of women's sex based protections, and it was the Tories that blocked Self Id, then blocked the scottish GRA and then commissioned the Cass Review.

Had it been Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens - we'd have Self Id already - and women would have continued to be silenced and labelled as hate mongers.

Edited

it is only members of the Tory party who have openly spoken up in defence of women's sex based protections,

In 2015, MPs who sat on the WEC were told by Gids executive members Bernadette Wren and Polly Carmichael how puberty blockers were being given to vulnerable young people and how no one was turned down for treatment.

The Tories didn't question safeguarding or ask about research to monitor outcomes, they wanted to know why Gids were so cautious. Maria Miller wanted to know why they didn't give hormones to younger children.

I've already pointed out some of the other Tory capitulation to Gender Ideology. To suggest they were powerless in the face of Gender Ideology is a joke. They were in power and are responsible for how Gender Ideology infiltrated our institutions.

And it was the Tories that blocked Self Id, then blocked the scottish GRA and then commissioned the Cass Review.

Liz Truss blocked Theresa May's Gender ID proposals. They were Tory policies. The Scottish GRA was blocked because of the complexity of UK wide equality law. NHS England commissioned the Cass report.

Had it been Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens - we'd have Self Id already - and women would have continued to be silenced and labelled as hate mongers.

Labour are in now and self ID was not in the manifesto and they have no plans to bring it in. Women were silenced under the Tories, I remember an awful amount of deplatforming and censorship which led to some important court cases.

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