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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Bindel following where FWR lead?

91 replies

IwantToRetire · 20/10/2024 01:37

Is it time for feminists to turn to the Tories?
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-it-time-for-feminists-to-turn-to-the-tories/

JB seems to have only just caught up with what has been an active discussion on FWR not only in the lead up to the election but for months before.

Never quite sure why papers, blogs etc., bother with chasing "names" to write for them, when they could just publish the link to one of the many relevent and thought leading threads on FWR!

Can be read in full at Is it time for feminists to turn to the Tories? | The Spectator

Is it time for feminists to turn to the Tories?

Should feminists like me hold their nose and team up with the Tories? It's a dilemma many of those concerned about the transgender debate face

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-it-time-for-feminists-to-turn-to-the-tories

OP posts:
Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 16:53

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 20/10/2024 16:54

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/10/2024 15:17

We all know the above...........Gender Ideology has been pervasive across society; Though inthe last several years - since women have forced the debate and in doing so raised consciousness across society - it is only members of the Tory party who have openly spoken up in defence of women's sex based protections, and it was the Tories that blocked Self Id, then blocked the scottish GRA and then commissioned the Cass Review.

Had it been Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens - we'd have Self Id already - and women would have continued to be silenced and labelled as hate mongers.

Edited

Rosie Duffield. Tonia Antoniazzi. In Scotland, Johann Lamont.

There have been some others, too. There are good, sensible women in all the parties, putting a lot at risk and taking a lot of flak for it.

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 17:04

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I Think it was actually Matt Hancock who set the ball rolling.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/the-tavistock-scandal-shows-the-dangers-of-civil-service-groupthink-5bj2z26c7

username3678 · 20/10/2024 17:05

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No. It was commissioned by NHS England and NHS Improvement in 2020. Javid is talking about supporting the investigation in the article.

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 17:06

username3678 · 20/10/2024 17:05

No. It was commissioned by NHS England and NHS Improvement in 2020. Javid is talking about supporting the investigation in the article.

It was commissioned by Matt Hancock…

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/the-tavistock-scandal-shows-the-dangers-of-civil-service-groupthink-5bj2z26c7

Archive…

https://archive.ph/bIdUw

“Even more credit should go to health secretaries such as Matt Hancock who in the midst of the pandemic pushed for the commissioning of the review by Dr Hilary Cass that led to the closing of the Tavistock and also his successor, Sajid Javid, who provided support when I raised numerous concerns that the Department of Health refused to prioritise.”

The Tavistock scandal shows the dangers of civil service groupthink

Government ministers have difficult decisions to make, often between options where the best course of action is unclear. Some decisions, however, are simple. T

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/the-tavistock-scandal-shows-the-dangers-of-civil-service-groupthink-5bj2z26c7

username3678 · 20/10/2024 17:11

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 17:06

It was commissioned by Matt Hancock…

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/the-tavistock-scandal-shows-the-dangers-of-civil-service-groupthink-5bj2z26c7

Archive…

https://archive.ph/bIdUw

“Even more credit should go to health secretaries such as Matt Hancock who in the midst of the pandemic pushed for the commissioning of the review by Dr Hilary Cass that led to the closing of the Tavistock and also his successor, Sajid Javid, who provided support when I raised numerous concerns that the Department of Health refused to prioritise.”

Edited

The Review was commissioned by NHS England to make recommendations on how to improve NHS gender identity services, and ensure that children and young people who are questioning their gender identity or experiencing gender dysphoria receive a high standard of care, that meets their needs, is safe, holistic and effective.
https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 17:24

username3678 · 20/10/2024 17:11

The Review was commissioned by NHS England to make recommendations on how to improve NHS gender identity services, and ensure that children and young people who are questioning their gender identity or experiencing gender dysphoria receive a high standard of care, that meets their needs, is safe, holistic and effective.
https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

Edited

Ok Matt Hancock pushed for the commission which would never have taken place without political pressure.

SpidersAreShitheads · 20/10/2024 17:25

I’m not a Tory. I still believe that fundamentally Keir Starmer is a decent human. I normally vote Labour.

And yet, despite some outliers, the Tories have become the party more willing to speak out about the issues with gender ideology and the importance of biological sex.

I think there are a tiny handful within the Tories who really do believe the rights of women are important, but largely I recognise that most of them don’t give a shit - they just know it’s a vote winner. Boris is the perfect example. He doesn’t care about women but he knows it’s a popular thing to say.

Labour have historically been poor on this issue and were very keen on introducing self-ID until it became clear that it would be electoral suicide. There are a few lone voices within Labour, like Rosie, but on the whole, the prominent Labour figures have been vigorously TWAW. Even now, the individuals appointed to promote women’s rights are vociferously TWAW and a very poor fit for the position.

As I said earlier, Wes Streeting seems to have had a change of heart and has refused to back down on Cass. I hope that as the tide turns Labour will row back from their previous position and accept that biological women deserve consideration too. It doesn’t yet seem to be a widespread view but I think Streeting is usually a good bellwether.

I’m not convinced that Cass would have happened under Labour, even though it was technically commissioned by NHS England. These things always have a root in politics, wrong though that may be. The Tories adopting a gender critical stance has helped, undoubtedly.

The Tories are horrendous for women in practically every other way, doubly so if you’re not wealthy or have a disability. But on gender they have been better, even though they did make a few missteps in the past.

Doesn’t mean the Tories are a good bunch, or that they got everything about gender right. But on gender alone, they’ve been the best party for a while - just a shame they’re so shit about everything else.

username3678 · 20/10/2024 17:54

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 17:24

Ok Matt Hancock pushed for the commission which would never have taken place without political pressure.

I wasn't aware anyone believed 'I'm just testing my eyes' Hancock.

The Cass review took place because of a big rise in referrals of gender questioning patients. Whistle blowers had also raised concerns about Gids. It was an independent report commissioned by NHS England. It doesn't surprise me that Tories are taking the credit though.

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 18:02

username3678 · 20/10/2024 17:54

I wasn't aware anyone believed 'I'm just testing my eyes' Hancock.

The Cass review took place because of a big rise in referrals of gender questioning patients. Whistle blowers had also raised concerns about Gids. It was an independent report commissioned by NHS England. It doesn't surprise me that Tories are taking the credit though.

Honestly the reluctance of people to give credit where it’s due is astounding. The idea that the NHS, who have presided over a decade of sterilising children for playing with the wrong toys (when there is no evidence for this “treatment”), would have commissioned the Cass Review with no political pressure is for the birds.

Sailonsilverrgirl · 20/10/2024 18:06

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 18:07

And the idea that Labour give a shit about women any more than the Tories do is also deluded. We’ve already seen how they intend to treat old people (who are majority female). If the Tories had pulled a stunt like this Labour voters would have rightly called it out as the cruel and heartless policy it is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62ryyl57vno.amp

Person warms hands next to an electric heater

Winter fuel payment: Fears that cutting money will cost lives - BBC News

Wales' older people's commissioner says people will die because of the decision.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62ryyl57vno.amp

username3678 · 20/10/2024 18:10

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 18:02

Honestly the reluctance of people to give credit where it’s due is astounding. The idea that the NHS, who have presided over a decade of sterilising children for playing with the wrong toys (when there is no evidence for this “treatment”), would have commissioned the Cass Review with no political pressure is for the birds.

I tend to go on facts, not blind loyalty.

YellowAsteroid · 20/10/2024 18:16

JB seems to have only just caught up with what has been an active discussion on FWR not only in the lead up to the election but for months before.

No, she's actually been discussing &talking about this for at least the last decade.

And if you want to be a "name" then get out there and sell your writing, instead of snarking at one of the bravest strongest journalists in this field around.

Signalbox · 20/10/2024 18:16

username3678 · 20/10/2024 18:10

I tend to go on facts, not blind loyalty.

So you think that NHS England did this entirely off their own backs without any political pressure despite articles and MPs stating the contrary and you think that is "going on the facts".

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 20/10/2024 18:29

The idea that NHS England commissioned Cass all by themselves and with no political pressure is for the birds.

The NHS? The ones that brought us the infected blood scandal, countless maternity scandals, and a mental health scandal so bad it's now a statutory inquiry? The one that desperately tried to hide the GIDS scandal and silenced whistleblowers? That NHS?

Nope.

SpidersAreShitheads · 20/10/2024 18:49

username3678 · 20/10/2024 18:10

I tend to go on facts, not blind loyalty.

Well this was my point, really.

I’m not a fan of the Tories in any way, shape or form but I think they helped put pressure on to make Cass happen, and then they accepted the recommendations wholeheartedly.

Loathe as I am to praise the Tories I do think it’s very important to give credit where it’s due.

The other side of this gender debate is particularly fond of twisting facts to suit their agenda and refusing to acknowledge reality, so I think it’s extra important to be scrupulously fair here to avoid being tarred with the same brush. I think we’ve all heard enough of “both sides of the gender debate are as bad as each other” - which is bollocks - so I think we have to work especially hard to demonstrate that we are sane, reasonable, honest, and fair.

illinivich · 20/10/2024 18:55

username3678 · 20/10/2024 18:10

I tend to go on facts, not blind loyalty.

No, you just googled "who commissioned the cass report" and read that it was commissioned by nhs england.

NHS England was told to review the service by the government.

username3678 · 20/10/2024 18:59

illinivich · 20/10/2024 18:55

No, you just googled "who commissioned the cass report" and read that it was commissioned by nhs england.

NHS England was told to review the service by the government.

No it wasn't. It was an independent review commissioned by the NHS. I've already explained the circumstances that gave rise to it and an example of the Tories ignoring safeguarding concerns raised in 2015.

Response: Yes it was!

And so on.

illinivich · 20/10/2024 19:02

Can you name the person who decided to review? A job title will do.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 20/10/2024 19:06

username3678 · 20/10/2024 18:59

No it wasn't. It was an independent review commissioned by the NHS. I've already explained the circumstances that gave rise to it and an example of the Tories ignoring safeguarding concerns raised in 2015.

Response: Yes it was!

And so on.

Mmmm. So keen was the NHS on getting it all out there and coming clean, that the adult clinics did what, remind me?

Oh yes, was it…refuse to provide data? I think it was.

username3678 · 20/10/2024 19:25

illinivich · 20/10/2024 19:02

Can you name the person who decided to review? A job title will do.

John Stewart, * *National Director for Specialised Commissioning was one member of NHS England who commissioned the report.

illinivich · 20/10/2024 19:45

There's no indication that he decided on the review without government pressure?

username3678 · 20/10/2024 20:35

illinivich · 20/10/2024 19:45

There's no indication that he decided on the review without government pressure?

I've already explained what triggered the review. This is derailing the thread, if you believe the Tories were responsible for Cass, that's your prerogative.

MorningYawning · 20/10/2024 20:53

TempestTost · 20/10/2024 02:12

Never quite sure why papers, blogs etc., bother with chasing "names" to write for them, when they could just publish the link to one of the many relevent and thought leading threads on FWR!

Ithink this all the time, you read articles in really well known, big newspapers, and I think, Jesus, I know six people who could write something far better in about 20 minutes.

Who gives them these jobs?

Anyway, I am surprised to see JB even ask the question. She's always seemed to be one of those silly people who assume that conservatives are all out to deliberately step on the neck of women. Notwithstanding the many women among their numbers.

Edited

Badenoch was the force behind Cass being awarded a peerage. If she did ONE thing, it was to enable Cass to have a voice in the HoL and God forbid Starmer's army of mutant gender robots needs her voice to drone out their Borg "TWAW" chants