Why do all trans discussions end in a bun fight?

[Name5]

I have a natal daughter who is a young adult. I try to keep an open dialogue with her as her thoughts are changing as she gets older.
She is not causing any discord to anyone. I try to help when desparate parents ask simple questions about their LGBTQ DC ( this week it was about getting a job). Within a few hours there are big fights re toilets and rape crisis centres. Yes these things are horrifying but every bloody thread gets high jacked with these points of law. There should be a subject category for parents of adult trans people. This would allow issues to be discussed without the OP being subjected to accusations of ideology or affirmation. I don't believe my DD is better as a male persona but I can't and won't bully her to accept my feelings override hers. She's still my DC and all subjects are open to reasonable and lawful discussion. MNHQ can you please list a new category so people don't feel attacked and bullied?

No matter how kind or respectful that person who is trying to shame you into complying to use that language tells you that it is to use the preferred language, it is someone who is demanding that you support their own philosophical belief.

Requiring someone to use language that supports your philosophical belief is no different to requiring all women, Muslim or not, to wear a Hijab or Burka.

Or more simply, for women;

Sex is why we are oppressed,
Gender is how we are oppressed.

I've worked with people from various faiths and some vehemently atheist but no-one complained you were "denying their existence" if you didnt share their faith. There might be the odd heated discussion if you believed in, say, astrology but then people would just agree not to talk about it.

This is terrorist like in trying to force your belief onto other people and do them harm if they resist.

Back in the day I spent every Friday and Saturday night in a club full of men with long hair and 'guy liner' who wore silk shirts blouses. None of them got attacked in the street or shouted at for the way they dressed.

Gender boundaries were being broken down and we were reaching a point where while a man in a skirt was still a talking point (see David Beckham's sarong etc) it wasn't a thing that lead to assault.

If that trajectory had continued we would probably now be at the same stage that women wearing trousers were in 1930's or 40's but the progress was totally derailed by an ideology that insisted that a man who wears a skirt must be a woman rather than a bloke in a skirt. This despite that fact that women now wear trousers more often than not. We were moving forward in breaking down gender stereotypes until the TRAs arrived and slammed the whole thing into reverse.

Now we are told some men are 'better' women than actual women because they are rigid conformers to outmoded ideas of what a woman should wear, how a woman should behave and what a woman should do.

I wish we lived in the world I enjoyed on the 90s and your son could walk down the street with long hair and makeup without attracting hate.

This is the thing. I don't think he actually wants to be a woman, not really. How can he when he doesn't know what it is to be a woman? He wants a space to be pretty.

In the 80s he could have been "pretty", and a guy - like Marilyn or Pete Burns (before Pete Burns went in for all the plastic surgery) or Boy George...or even like Adam Ant or Simon le Bon.

I don't know how to achieve that in this modern world where your presentation apparently changes your biology or identity.

She has few male traits.

Please define what a 'male trait ' is without using sexist gender stereotypes...

Please point at the transphobia?

oh BTW. Women can’t have cocks.

THERE! That right there is blatant transphobia!

Reported.

Au contraire. They make a lovely pet.

@RedToothBrush i can't!

My DD had a manny and I guess she equated certain sports and hobbies with boys. There were no other female influences (both grannies died when she was a baby).
However she is a artist part time and has fab painted nails (this actually broke the spell because she was berated for it by a transwomen). She was told no FTM paints their nails. Control behaviour. It was the start of the scales falling from her eyes.

We know you are joking MissS, but does Bjorn?

That is very sad.

My tween at the time was told that their interests were all ‘those of the opposite sex’ and was very concerned about it. They were bullied for it. But after I pointed out that neither of their parents really fell into the stereotypes that these school bullies were pushing, my tween realised that these people were never going to be friends. That and the fact that where we had moved from, those interests were considered very neutral and it would have been very sexist to even think that let alone say it to someone.

Thankfully, we got past that. It took a couple of years.

@Name5 it sounds like you are doing a wonderful job - it must be incredibly hard xx

Wrong thread oops.

@Helleofabore its interesting that some view hobbies as male or female. My DD likes marvel, speaks Japanese and loves film. She is also a computer wizz. At boarding school she caused a rumpus for refusing basic cookery classes (my dad taught her to cook as a three year old, she didn't see the need to make scones! ) and she was sanctioned for wearing trousers. She quoted the equality act. She won on that one.
My DD has been lucky to have a large group of friends. All types. She speaks many languages and is intetested in people. She answers to both her birth name and her preferred name. Not everyone is a 'dick'.

What country are you in?

Because it sounds very 1970's...

@frenchnoodle UK. Home Counties.

Speaking Japanese is a male hobby?

@pleatspleats so she's been told.
Cobblers to that. Ditto her interest in cars.

It's all very strange isn't it.

So what makes her a girl?

Sounds as though it’s been a rough ride. For what it’s worth, I think the posts on here where mums seek support re their gender questioning dc are hugely supportive.

I think this one has perhaps got off on the wrong foot.

The LGBT children board is very good. I had a thread running there for almost 2 years, lots of support.

That there is a truth, no more no less, get a grip.

Oops, sorry, apparently it was a joke, my bad.

My DD was told by other children at Primary school she wanted to be a boy as she played Rugby, had shorter hair and liked Sci Fi.

The girls on her (all girls!) Team throughly disagree on that one! Fortunately Secondary school seems more enlightened.

Some people do have very fixed ideas on gender stereotypes.