Rape crisis centres led by trans women....what the appeal for males to be involved in the running g of the!

[mids2019]

I am glad of the departure of the man who ran a Scottish rape crisis centre as I guess a lot of people are.

However there seems something really dark about a male psyche (trans or not) that wants to be intimately involved in supporting victims of an extremely sensitive sexual crime. I guess tra may make the argument that men are raped too but there should be separate service for this.

The idea of a man listening to woman's description of degradation is applying to me. Had it not occurring to some that there may be men taking some form of macabre perverse pleasure (possibly sexual) in this?

I think there may be some likelihood that a trans woman may find the assault experience one they find important to explore as it is yet another aspect of womanhood (and a horrible one) that they can't experience. It may be a feeling that the tw is 'locked out' of a venue no one wants to be in in the first instance which is quite perverse. I am sorry you do have to question why a man and ,yes, man wants to head a rape crisis centre and set its policy.

if you were to be cynical you may think there is some kind of fetish here that is unthinkable.

Christinapple · Today 01:20

^This is one reason why gender critical views are so unpopular with the general population....

Apart from the fact that your statement is complete and utter rubbish, the entire point of this discussion has whooshed about 1,000 miles over your head.

can potentially potentially lead to some trans people facing wrongful accusations that could be harmful to them.

If I were them I'd be more worried about all the true accusations that could be harmful to them. No shortage of real things they're doing wrong, as illustrated here.

Maybe your hypothetical concerned-and-totally-innocent-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly-or-interfere-with-women's-rights-in-any-way "trans people" should go and lecture the other "trans people" to behave better, to avoid being tarred with the same brush.

(Maybe starting about 15 years ago would be good. Ta.)

It's just simply a fact rape is a crime that men can't experience in the same way as women. If you have a good male counsellor they will quite rightly consider the woman has been subject to a crime can't experience in lives experience. OK make rape exists but it is rare and obviously doesn't involve a vagina.

It just seems to me a man wanting to run a rape centre and one that wants to identify as woman does not accept this and in some perverse illogical way wants a societal acknowledgment that tw and women can experience the same trrauma. This is simply not the case. Possibly a motivation was to encourage more tw into such centres so that he 'vunerabilty' can be shown to all those viscous terms out there. This really would be depressing.

look how often the derogatory term "AGP" is thrown around on this forum

Is kink-shaming ok now then? I thought suggesting AGP was a negative motivation was transphobic?

@SinnerBoy There's a world of difference between informing a female victim that there is a male therapist available, if she's comfortable with that and a completely unqualified oddball man forcing his way in, to ask disturbing questions and scold and berate female victims, without their consent.

Of course there is. I didn’t suggest otherwise. What happened at Edinburgh rape crisis was abhorrent.

I think it is wrong for men to be near rape and assault victims especially in the immediate aftermath. Having been sexually assaulted and raped, I went through a short stage of not wanting to be near any man at all. It reminds me of the meaning of the famous quote “all men are potential rapists” because in that immediate aftermath you are reminded that men (all men!) are actually capable of this, and because your trust has been shattered so horrifically by the actual man who did it, you feel like you can’t trust any man.

I think it’s a primal and wise reaction. And I think it is wrong for any man to be there at that point where trust needs to be rebuilt, it’s traumatising.

In my view that man is just a disgusting pervert and psychopath, but I do extend that to other men who insist on being in the field.

As always, it's about consent. Actual, free consent.

"Do you consent to get your clothes off with/pee and change san pro with/share a refuge with/tell your sexual assault story to/ have a smear test from" this male person who may have a range of chosen preferred names for their identity?

If yes, great, crack on. If no, then the male's identity and any other reasons about how 'good' it is for women, or the needs of men are utterly irrelevant. Informed, full, free consent with facilities for all - with the female options NOT dependent on whether or not there are males having a sulk that there's a facility existing that messes with their self image - and that's the end of any problem here.

And absolutely agree with OP's point that at this point it is ridiculously naive not to ask the obvious question of why a male is so very keen to be working with, listening to and running services for females who have been sexually assaulted, particularly when they are very open about their agenda of enforcing their own political male-centric agenda on those women and about their entire lack of respect for those women beyond how they will be useful to this agenda.

The message here that’s important to me is that this was your choice. You found a male therapist that worked for you at a stage in your journey where it really helped you.

A male therapist should never be forced on a vulnerable, traumatised woman (whether this is by denying her the choice or by making her feel unable to reject a trans person.) It sounds like the therapist helped you later on, not at a stage where you were in crisis or the early stages of recovery.

Yes. As a pp said. It’s about consent.

Given the views of those such as Andrea Long Chu, about what womanhood is, then no trans woman should be anywhere near a rape survivor. These views, informed by pornography, are supported by a large cohort on many social media platforms. No man can experience rape and any that do, will not experience that with female experience, socialisation and health concerns.

It was years after my rapes that I went to RC (not Edinburgh thankfully) for help. As I was waiting to cross the road towards the centre I saw a man walking past, minding his own business, probably not even knowing what the building he was walking past was for, and I had such a visceral reaction (probably not helped by the fact that I was nervous anyway) I nearly turned round and went home again. It probably sounds ridiculous. There will be some who understand, I've no doubt.

It was bad enough for me to see a man in the street at that particular time, I can't bear to think what it would have been like for any woman to have endured being in the same room as MW let alone him asking her about orgasming, laughing when she described her rapes, getting off on her experiences and trauma. And for nothing to be done about him and his behaviour for so many years. It is beyond comprehension.

hatboxes · Today 07:49

Of course there is. I didn’t suggest otherwise. What happened at Edinburgh rape crisis was abhorrent.

Sorry! I wasn't trying to say that you believe anything different, I just wanted to point out the difference. As you can see, posters here, as well as IRL seems to think that poor old Wadwha was lovely, kind and hounded out of his job....

Men can experience rape and I would imagine feel degraded and violated in a similar way to women, but I agree with everything else you said there.

No man can experience a penis being inserted into their vaginas against their will. They can experience any number and type of sexual assault, but piv rape is a female only experience.

Well that is for men to ruminate and find a solution to.
I don't see them doing that anywhere on the internet and I've never heard of any man talking about it, but it's still their problem.

I will spend my time funding and donating to single sex rape counselling and other services and prisons and hospital wards and changing rooms and other places where sex matters to women.

No man can experience a penis being inserted into their vaginas against their will.

I know. But anal rape and oral rape exist.

Rape involves a penis being inserted into a woman's vagina or the mouth or anus of a person of either sex. It's an exclusively male crime as to the perpetrator. The vast majority of rapes are of women and girls.

I imagine a male surgical neovagina would count as a vagina in the law, also.

We don't seem able to have a thread about female rape without men's experience of assault being discussed.

I'm happy not to discuss men. It wasn't me who brought them up. There's absolutely no need to make incorrect statements that men don't experience rape though.

I'm sorry, I thought it was you that said
Men can experience rape and I would imagine feel degraded and violated in a similar way to women, presumably to correct my assertion about women's experience of rape.

Do you actually deny that men would feel degraded and violated when raped? It's completely unnecessary. I said I agreed with everything else you said but I couldn't let that bizarre statement go.

I suspect that as well for MW, part of the reason for applying for this job may be for validation as a woman. Someone posted a while ago about a social gathering where MW was going round asking people if they thought he was a woman - I guess if you are head of a rape crisis centre, used mainly by women who mostly want to see women counsellors, your role there helps you to convince yourself that you are a woman too.