Rape crisis centres led by trans women....what the appeal for males to be involved in the running g of the!

[mids2019]

I am glad of the departure of the man who ran a Scottish rape crisis centre as I guess a lot of people are.

However there seems something really dark about a male psyche (trans or not) that wants to be intimately involved in supporting victims of an extremely sensitive sexual crime. I guess tra may make the argument that men are raped too but there should be separate service for this.

The idea of a man listening to woman's description of degradation is applying to me. Had it not occurring to some that there may be men taking some form of macabre perverse pleasure (possibly sexual) in this?

I find it extremely difficult to read some of the things he said and not arrive at the same conclusion. It makes me feel ill.

Paraphillia and misogyny.

Just for a different perspective, sorry if this sounds like NAMALT.

I know an experienced male therapist who works with both female and male victims of sexual assault and CSA. He started working with male victims but over his career broadened into working with women too. He's absolutely not a misogynist or a perve.

There can be therapeutic value for a victim of male violence, in building a healthy, boundaried, respectful relationship with an ethical male therapist.

What MW was doing was something entirely different.

In Ireland it is nearly impossible to bring up anything about violence against women/women's refuges/RCCs without an immediate 'But what about the men...?'

And even before it was legally obliged to do so, as current Irish equality legislation obliges, the Dublin RCC - I don't know about the others around the country - voluntarily opened their doors to men. I know this because I spoke to them about it many years ago, expressing my unease about it. They said they were careful to keep male and female clients separate, but I believe it was the principle of RCCs being women's spaces that was breached.

All groups supporting women survivors of male violence in Ireland now have to be very careful of how they describe themselves - our legislation does not even have the few single-sex exceptions allowed for by UK legislation, and any man can self-ID as a woman, so offering support to 'women' has to mean to anybody who says they are a woman.

I think many of the men who show up in stats as 'victims of rape/sexual assault' are adult survivors of sexual abuse as children, so the actual number of men who are sexually assaulted as adults, and in need of crisis support, is unclear.

All survivors of sexual violence, male, female, adult, child, need and deserve support, but why don't men put their energy into setting up their own specialised safe spaces for male survivors, instead of demanding that women share our RCCs with them, whether as clients or staff?

That's what's so fucked up. In an ideal world, wonderful, caring, qualified men like your friend would be an asset in helping women after trauma. But it's the narcissists, whether with sexual intent or not that created this shit show.

Because the more "Women Only" something is, the more men with a deep need to be accepted as women are going to want to get in there. It is intolerable to them for anything to exist where it commonly accepted they should not be because it is proof that underneath the performative TWAW, society actually fully knows they are not women and does not really accept them as such.

Absolutely agree with this. I too l know a brilliant male psychologist, who spent his career working with victims of sexual assault, both men and women, victimised as both children and adults. However he was aware of other men in his profession who he believed did get some gratification from hearing the stories. It is important though that survivors can see there are some safe men.

I know, me too. The orgasm thing made me feel ill and also so enraged. MW was and is a horrible, creepy, sexually depraved man who quite clearly got his kicks being involved directly with traumatised women. In an ideal world this would be headline BBC news and all of ERCC staff involved in his behaviour removed from post, but it won't happen. The BBC at least put it in as a side article on the Scotland section but it's not been featured prominently as it should have been.

The period officer story got more coverage and outrage from the BBC even though there wasn't anything inherently "bad" that that guy did (although I disagreed at the time with his appointment). Scottish civil service government etc have created a sacred caste around trans women (men) which has inevitably led to these types abusing their positions and still not being punished properly for it.

I don't think being male precludes someone from bring able to contribute to therapy for assaulted women, in general.

What MW did and said was awful. Not because MW is male but because of what MW is like.

There will be people coming into this thread who don't know the context.
MW threatened and bullied a woman working in their rape crisis centre for asking other staff if it was OK to confirm to a rape service user that another staff member was female, as they described themselves as non-binary, so the person asking wasn't sure if they were male or not, as this was clearly important to them.

That unleashed enough bullying that it went to a tribunal, which revealed appalling things going on under MW's direction. Full report is jaw-dropping.

The orgasm comment made me feel ill too. Hideous. Women are so extremely vulnerable when seeking support for sex assault or abuse. That this was said to a woman in that position makes me want to scream and cry.

@Dumbo12 However he was aware of other men in his profession who he believed did get some gratification from hearing the stories.

Oh god that's awful. Feeling ill again.

It is important though that survivors can see there are some safe men.

Yes exactly this. And victims of MW and others like him get the opposite experience.

Remember MW was not in any way a qualified therapist - he had no relevant qualifications. But counselled rape victims ‘to keep things fun’.

Absolutely this, and it is legitimate to explain to rape/ sexual abuse survivors, that bodies react automatically, it is not legitimate to discuss that in any form of salacious manner. It sounds as if he had listened to some training/ client interviews and took a normal piece of work and turned it into something to meet his own interests.🤢🤮

I don't believe all men who are involved in therapeutic work are deviants.

However there was evidently a very toxic environment in that centre beginning with the Trustees who allowed a man to take a position reserved for women.

He was then allowed rampant to abuse and retraumatise survivors of sexual assault. The Director was great chums with him and supported his abuse. The therapists allowed him into sessions to retraumatise clients.

This noxious individual was allowed to disabuse his position seemingly unchallenged until they bullied someone out of their job and were investigated.

It's obvious from his behaviour that his intentions are not in good faith and I think he's now got another position to do it again.

Yes I was going to mention the lack of qualifications. Sure, male counsellors and psychologists/psychotherapists exist and many will be in it for the right reasons and be able to help women appropriately.

But isn’t it the case that MW has none of those qualifications?

And as for ‘keeping things fun’.

Well all of it is enough to make you feel you’re in a parallel universe isn’t it? Does no one in authority understand safeguarding anymore?

Whilst in principle I agree with the statement It is important though that survivors can see there are some safe men I think it is more important that they are protected from the men who do get gratification from hearing the stories and on the face of it how do women know who are the safe men?

on the face of it how do women know who are the safe men?

This is the issue of course.

I agree and it is something that I think is so difficult to balance, that there is no definitive answer. My view is a little coloured by having worked with men and women who were sexually abused as children, by women as well as those abused by men.

As PP said, though a man should clearly not have been in a job advertised for women only, a big part of this is just what MW is like as an individual.

The thing about bodies reacting automatically is really important for counselling men who were abused as boys. Because adolescent boys will get an erection at the drop of a hat, and on that basis they'll convince themselves (and/or be convinced by their abuser) that they wanted what happened to them.

A sensitive man would know that. I wouldn't trust MW with the care of abused men either. It's shocking that someone like that would get a responsible position in the sector; not so shocking that he would gravitate towards the sector.

Therapeutic abuse is a real thing. I have experienced it. People coming to therapy of any kind, are vulnerable. There is an inherent power imbalance between therapist and client, which is why therapy is very concerned with ethics.

Proper training, being accountable to a governing body, and supervision, is the bare minimum to safeguard against harm done by people giving therapy.

I'm surprised that more isn't made of the fact that MW was giving therapy without being qualified, and presumably without being supervised.

Absolutely. It would be a positive thing for these women to see that some men can be trusted- but during the aftermath of trauma is not the time for such ‘lessons’. Otherwise it snacks of ‘reframe your trauma’.

Any decent man working in this capacity would completely understand why many survivors/victims (I’m sorry- not being one myself, I’m not sure which word women prefer) CAN NOT be counselled by a man.

He wasn't a qualified counsellor when appointed, he wasn't a woman, and he barely seemed to be able to manage an office - how bad were the other applicants? Or did he get a special nod? And if so why?

Scottish politics is a very small world. I'm assuming that being well networked in that world didn't hurt.

I HATE HATE HATE that! The fact that whenever you say something like "gosh it's horrible being a woman ", some
cr€€py pr|¢k will say "it's not easy being a man either" or some such comment - and change the conversation entirely.

Possibly it is something in trans mentality that they are able to identify with female sexuality even to such an extent they feel they can have an intimate understanding of a personal viscous crime. Does it solidify their identity to have maybe a debatable interest in offenses only committed against women?

Is it one the bastion trans women have to storm, those annoying rape crisis centres which only accommodate people with vaginas? Is there some illogical point that twaw and therefore are subject to exactly the same crimes that are committed against women.