Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row

386 replies

IwantToRetire · 08/09/2024 23:50

High street giant John Lewis is at the centre of a furious row amid claims its controversial trans policies put the safety of female staff and customers at risk, it can be revealed.

The retail group is facing claims its inclusive transgender policies – claimed to have been unilaterally imposed on staff – are "dangerous" and relegate women to "second class employees".

Lesley Pickup, who quit her job as a "selling partner" in John Lewis' Cheadle branch, allowed her resignation letter to be published on TV comedy writer and women's rights campaigner Graham Linehan's Substack platform, "The Glinner Update". In her letter, she insisted "female colleagues live in fear of dismissal if they speak out".

Ms Pickup said that for the past 20 years, she had been "involved with female victims from all faiths, cultures, ethnicities, and backgrounds who have been subjected to domestic and sexual violence and psychological abuse by men".

For some, she said, work offered "the only time in their lives where they should have guaranteed female-only safe spaces free from the demands of men regardless of who those men claim to be".

Full story https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-lewis-allows-trans-men-33622299

John Lewis 'allows trans men into bra-fitting rooms' as gender row hits retailer

The high street giant – famed for its Christmas ads and 'Never Knowingly Undersold' catchphrase – is accused of putting female staff and customers at risk in order to 'demonstrate their 'woke' credentials to a minority of the population'

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-lewis-allows-trans-men-33622299

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Datun · 10/09/2024 21:55

Bodeganights · 10/09/2024 21:50

Ooooh havent heard that one in at least a week.

Your assuming we cant all tell by just looking at them? The smell of them, the gait of them, the voice of them, the sheer size of them, the large hands, the hairline/wig, giant feet, and on and on and on.

We can tell.

The violation of our boundaries...

Winrus · 10/09/2024 22:04

Yikes no more JL for me then!

Datun · 10/09/2024 22:11

The last time I went into an actual JL store (Oxford St), it was an awful experience. Bad enough that I actually complained.

Normally John Lewis is a cut above. This time absolutely bloody not.

It was a fairly uncomfortable experience, and I left without buying anything. In fact, I couldn't wait to leave.

I don't know if this is a result of them falling on harder times. But, if you're going to alienate your core customers, you can't be that shocked.

quantumbutterfly · 10/09/2024 22:37

Grammarnut · 10/09/2024 19:20

Not much cop walking in heels, is he?😂

clomp, clomp, clomp, clomp. I thought the same thing.

StainlessSteelMouse · 11/09/2024 00:04

I mean the retail business under capitalism is not that difficult a concept. You have a good or a service, and people called "customers" give you money in exchange for that good or service. Customers also often give you helpful suggestions about things you can do that will encourage them to give you even more money.

If you're running a lingerie department, the overwhelming majority of your customers will be women.

If you're arranging your lingerie department to appeal to Eddie Izzard, you might be in the wrong business.

StealthSpinach · 11/09/2024 01:11

Bideshi · 10/09/2024 17:48

Yes, I have one every year - last one three weeks ago. All very discreet- you're ushered into a private cubicle, given bras to try on and the fitter waits outside until you're ready. You're seldom measured because JL bra fitters can invariably size you by eye. It the fitter comes into the cubicle to adjust a strap, she asks permission and sort of sidles in without opening the door fully.
I absolutely need a fitter, not so much that she knows my size but that she knows her stock. Bras can vary hugely even within the same range - different strap styles, cut, etc. Some fit, some don't. So, firstly, don't tell me I don't need a bra fitter; I do.
And additionally, there's not much chance of men 'parading around' in the fitting room - just can't imagine how that scenario would work, given the protocols I experienced. I've never had so much as a glimpse of other women getting fitted.

However, I absolutely hate the idea of sharing that space with men who are identifying as women. Bloody hate it. Hate sharing loos. Hate the invasion of privacy. Hate being expected to pay lip service to this set of delusions, and hate what it's doing to anyone who speaks out, no matter how mildly. Particularly hate the infiltration by the rabid sector of the BMA.

Women don’t parade around in the fitting room area when trying on bras - at least not that I’ve ever experienced in all my years.
The males who perform as women seem to see the parading and being viewed as part of the process. Similarly to the way many transidentifying males appear to prefer peeing in the female cubicles with the door open.
The world (at least the female part of it) is their stage…

sashh · 11/09/2024 02:12

KerryBlues · 10/09/2024 12:51

Define “frequently”. I’ve never seen it happen, even once.

Edited

Oh I have seen it, once.

The first appearance of Culture club on TOTP. My mother looked up and asked, "Why don't these girls make themselves look pretty?"

That would be, what? The early 1980s?

ArabellaScott · 11/09/2024 07:11

quantumbutterfly · 10/09/2024 22:37

clomp, clomp, clomp, clomp. I thought the same thing.

If you mean 'Kim' I'm afraid he does it on purpose to attract attention, he says as much in one video.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2024 09:35

I thought so, @ArabellaScott

quantumbutterfly · 11/09/2024 09:51

ArabellaScott · 11/09/2024 07:11

If you mean 'Kim' I'm afraid he does it on purpose to attract attention, he says as much in one video.

I was a young & naive student when a transvestite ( the accepted term back then) came to my counter in the womens' clothing dept. His (large & v hairy) hands were shaking as he signed the payment slip. I assumed he was nervous, now I wonder if he was actually excited.

I am so over 'be kind'. I count myself lucky that my youth was over well before the social media age.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2024 10:07

@quantumbutterfly check out the Guardian article I linked upthread yesterday morning.

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 11/09/2024 11:42

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 09/09/2024 08:51

Males don't need a bra. They don't need to be fitted. If they want one, they can measure themselves at home/ guess, like a lot of women do.

Of course shop workers 'have the same rights as anyone else' but this isn't about rights, is it? Everyone has the right to not be sexuality assaulted - that doesn't stop it happening!

This is about being supported by your employer and wider society to have reasonable boundaries. It's not at all clear that JL would support a woman employee in that situation. What she might consider sexual harassment, ie being stuck in a private space with a strange male (including trans women as they are male) and being expected to fit them for underwear, JL might consider to be 'all in a days work'.

I'm at a loss to see why anyone thinks this isn't a problem.
I can't imagine being stuck in a changing cubicle with a strange man - it would be terrifying.

As usual, it's putting the responsibility for enforcing boundaries in a difficult situation onto the woman, and blaming her if the man transgresses them 'why didn't you say no/run away/ leave him? ' 🤬

Edited to hopefully avoid breaking any rules.

Edited

Thanks for this accurate and useful summary.

I can’t un-see photos of rapist Isla Bryson outside the court in his pink tights, so obviously enjoying that moment of fame. It’s all about forcing themselves on an unwilling audience.

Tallisker · 24/09/2024 14:45

"...bald-headed, beer-bellied bloke with a beard who calls himself Bianca..."

Love me a bit of alliteration 😁

Datun · 24/09/2024 15:00

That is a really good letter. It's basically throwing down the gauntlet.

Beer bellied Bianca is front and centre.

The reply will be very interesting. If they take issue with BBB being at all representative, they will be inundated with proof.

She just lifted the lid

Snowypeaks · 24/09/2024 15:02

Brilliant letter. That woman should do seminars.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/09/2024 15:06

Can anyone possibly copy and paste, I must have been sweary one time too many because she's blocked me Grin I know she's quite strict on that!

ArabellaScott · 24/09/2024 15:09

Hre you go, Eresh.

John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row
Snowypeaks · 24/09/2024 15:10

Deleted - tried and failed to screenshot letter and saw that ArabellaScott had done so!

CriticalCondition · 24/09/2024 17:30

That is an absolute cracker of a letter! 😁

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/09/2024 19:39

That letter made me laugh. Can't wait to see the non response 😁

ElleWoods15 · 24/09/2024 22:45

Datun · 24/09/2024 15:00

That is a really good letter. It's basically throwing down the gauntlet.

Beer bellied Bianca is front and centre.

The reply will be very interesting. If they take issue with BBB being at all representative, they will be inundated with proof.

She just lifted the lid

It’s ’beer bellied Bianca’ that makes it crude, unprofessional, deliberately offensive and actually not worthy of response.

RobinEllacotStrike · 24/09/2024 22:48

Follow up letter 🔥

John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row
Glamourreader · 24/09/2024 22:52

She's totally brilliant 😁

Swipe left for the next trending thread