John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row

[IwantToRetire]

High street giant John Lewis is at the centre of a furious row amid claims its controversial trans policies put the safety of female staff and customers at risk, it can be revealed.

The retail group is facing claims its inclusive transgender policies – claimed to have been unilaterally imposed on staff – are "dangerous" and relegate women to "second class employees".

Lesley Pickup, who quit her job as a "selling partner" in John Lewis' Cheadle branch, allowed her resignation letter to be published on TV comedy writer and women's rights campaigner Graham Linehan's Substack platform, "The Glinner Update". In her letter, she insisted "female colleagues live in fear of dismissal if they speak out".

Ms Pickup said that for the past 20 years, she had been "involved with female victims from all faiths, cultures, ethnicities, and backgrounds who have been subjected to domestic and sexual violence and psychological abuse by men".

For some, she said, work offered "the only time in their lives where they should have guaranteed female-only safe spaces free from the demands of men regardless of who those men claim to be".

Full story https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-lewis-allows-trans-men-33622299

I do not want to hear a man having a bra fitted.

Strewth. Can you imagine? Seriously.

Maybe John Lewis need a separate fitting area for men with breasts or they get fitted in the men’s changing room. It’s not hard to solve if only men were reasonable about this.

I once stood in a M&S lingerie queue that contained a trans-identifying man. This person insisted on trying to engage the women in the queue, talking about how difficult it is to find a bra that fits, isn’t it, etc, in a voice like Les Dawson. Everyone around him was embarrassed and giving clear signs that they didn’t want to engage, but he was undeterred. These men seem to imagine that ‘we girls’ ‘share’ wherever we gather.

Yes, I have one every year - last one three weeks ago. All very discreet- you're ushered into a private cubicle, given bras to try on and the fitter waits outside until you're ready. You're seldom measured because JL bra fitters can invariably size you by eye. It the fitter comes into the cubicle to adjust a strap, she asks permission and sort of sidles in without opening the door fully.
I absolutely need a fitter, not so much that she knows my size but that she knows her stock. Bras can vary hugely even within the same range - different strap styles, cut, etc. Some fit, some don't. So, firstly, don't tell me I don't need a bra fitter; I do.
And additionally, there's not much chance of men 'parading around' in the fitting room - just can't imagine how that scenario would work, given the protocols I experienced. I've never had so much as a glimpse of other women getting fitted.

However, I absolutely hate the idea of sharing that space with men who are identifying as women. Bloody hate it. Hate sharing loos. Hate the invasion of privacy. Hate being expected to pay lip service to this set of delusions, and hate what it's doing to anyone who speaks out, no matter how mildly. Particularly hate the infiltration by the rabid sector of the BMA.

In my local department store the lingerie department has curtains with a gap at the bottom. They may be cubicles in JL but not everywhere and I don’t want to be in a cubicle with a bloke measuring my breasts anyway, however he identifies!

I am a woman and have no interest where men might get their bras fitted.

Nothing to do with me, or any other woman.

🎯
This is it. Not. Our. Problem.

You're seldom measured because JL bra fitters can invariably size you by eye.

Yes. Lots of places to do this. Because bra sizes change from company to company.

Frankly, any bloke who really wanted a bra could do it by zoom.

This has reminded me of my very first job at the age of 16. I worked in a jeans shop,in the men's dept.
It was truly astonishing how many men claimed that they didn't know their inside leg measurement. I only lasted 3 weeks.

Grotty buggers.

I never shop in John Lewis. Now I have a reason not to.

I once left a cubicle in M&S early without buying precisely because a young teen was getting her first bra fitted next door. I could hear every word, and my heart went out to her. I felt too embarrassed by the level of detail and language being used to stay. It felt more respectful to her to give her some space and privacy, and relieve her of the likely uncomfortable consciousness that next door was occupied.

Not much cop walking in heels, is he?😂

It is amazing which side brings up genital inspections all the time, one might think there is some unsavoury agenda for doing so.

It may be a cliche but it’s one worth repeating.

My OH used a unisex lavatory at a venue recently. There was quite a queue for the facilities and he was standing in between two women. He kept his eyes straight ahead hoping not to make any women feel awkward embarrassed etc. even though he said they kept looking at him a bit warily , in the end he came away and said,they clearly don’t feel comfortable my being there and I don’t want to be there.
It’s not only women who would prefer a male wasn’t in the same bathroom, men I’ve spoken to don’t want to be there either, for the woman’s sake.

But no one asks the people that actually matter…women.

Very thoughtful of you.

So what’s the answer then, women just put up with it until something does happen? Can you give a guarantee no transwoman is so,for anything less than innocent reasons. If not then why add that risk for women.
If this is to be believed and according to government figures, more than 74% of transgender inmates in British jails are in prison for sex crimes or violent crimes.
Now of course I’m not suggesting all transgender persons are likely to perpetrate such a crime but that % is not insignificant.
Is it really a risk worth taking ?

All the women who don't mind men in the fitting rooms- that's nice - for you.

However, consent is not transferable and you don't consent for me, nor for most other women.

If JL want to start providing that service, they are most welcome, I certainly wont protest it or try to prevent it, I dont care even. But women need female only places where it matters and bra fitting matters. So men of any gender can go into a mens only space to be fitted bras, by men workers.

How do we tell which are agp?
Who do we choose to play a part in the fetish?

And of course if a woman agrees for some weird reason to fit a Male, she is then consenting and the fetish loses its appeal.

Hmmmm what commitment?
Changing your "gender markers" on passport and drivers license? Easy as pie.
Changing your "gender markers" in the NHS? Easy as asking the receptionist.
Wearing a dress? Come on hardly difficult.
Wearing lipstick, see above.
Possibly paying £5 for a gender reassignment certificate? Hardly onerous.

Or did you think you had to go through some kind of process? Nope, nada, just say the words 'I am a woman now' and you are a woman.

catching up on this thread and it felt like I was playing transactivist bingo, I got

• genital inspection
• middle class mumsnet
• they are going to do it anyway
• my [friend/ friends daughter] often mistaken for a man
• but what do TW do if we don’t let them do what they want
• you can’t tell who are transwomen
• NATWALT

what did I miss?

Oh and a poster insisting that only a highly specific example they devised would work for her to convince her senior friend in JL and we needed to provide a case fitting that.

Oh forgot we also got

• TW wouldn’t go to all that effort to transition so they could peek at naked women

is that a full set?

Ooooh havent heard that one in at least a week.

Your assuming we cant all tell by just looking at them? The smell of them, the gait of them, the voice of them, the sheer size of them, the large hands, the hairline/wig, giant feet, and on and on and on.

We can tell.

@TrainedByDinosaurs has there been a #bekind... 'they only want to shop for pretty clothes'.....?