John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row

[IwantToRetire]

High street giant John Lewis is at the centre of a furious row amid claims its controversial trans policies put the safety of female staff and customers at risk, it can be revealed.

The retail group is facing claims its inclusive transgender policies – claimed to have been unilaterally imposed on staff – are "dangerous" and relegate women to "second class employees".

Lesley Pickup, who quit her job as a "selling partner" in John Lewis' Cheadle branch, allowed her resignation letter to be published on TV comedy writer and women's rights campaigner Graham Linehan's Substack platform, "The Glinner Update". In her letter, she insisted "female colleagues live in fear of dismissal if they speak out".

Ms Pickup said that for the past 20 years, she had been "involved with female victims from all faiths, cultures, ethnicities, and backgrounds who have been subjected to domestic and sexual violence and psychological abuse by men".

For some, she said, work offered "the only time in their lives where they should have guaranteed female-only safe spaces free from the demands of men regardless of who those men claim to be".

Full story https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-lewis-allows-trans-men-33622299

They are part of the problem - certainly for women and girls; and given your experience with with male violence against women - you must surely know that already.

When female dignity, integrity and boundaries are not respected and men feel that women can be used for self gratification or validation - it is but the thin end of a very big wedge -which can end up in such refuges as you say you work in.

Speak to some trans widows to find out how transgression and boundary pushing can/does develop,

Then you should surely know that it’s males, no matter how they identify, as that risk doesn’t change FYI regardless of how they identify.

No it’s not a problem, they can take the bras into the males then by your reasoning. Women who for religious reasons, women who are survivors of sexual assault (you should really be more sensitive given your ‘experience’) and people like me who just don’t want to be in fucking changing rooms with males, full stop, all have the right to this. It’s ‘yuck’ this is being trampled on.

Care to address any of the other points you keep side stepping?

Care to address any of the other points you keep side stepping?

That would be novel

Middle class women also have rights, including to express their views and to protect themselves and other women. That apparently offends you - how inclusive! Those old Karens eh, how can we bully them into shutting TFU. Too bad for you, it’s not happening.

If you can’t see that men transgressing women’s boundaries is a problem, it’s because you don’t want to see it.

Whether the transgression is rape at one end of the spectrum, masturbating in the women’s changing room, or just enjoying frightening teenage girls and upsetting women sales assistants.

All unacceptable dear and we don’t accept it and won’t accept it.

middle of the lane, middle class spaces, like John Lewis (ffs let’s all get a grip),

JL is a worker-owned co-op.

'The John Lewis Partnership is the largest employee-owned business in the UK with total trading sales of over £12.3bn and a workforce of 80,000 Partners.'

The problem is clearly women expressing a view and objecting rather than men seeking erotic thrills in the ladies/ladies changing room. Oh for the good old days when women knew their place.

The Metropolitan Police definition of sexual assault or offence:

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rsa/rape-and-sexual-assault/what-is-rape-and-sexual-assault/#:~:text=The%20overall%20definition%20of%20sexual,participate%20in%20any%20sexual%20acts

"The overall definition of sexual or indecent assault is an act of physical, psychological and emotional violation in the form of a sexual act, inflicted on someone without their consent. It can involve forcing or manipulating someone to witness or participate in any sexual acts.

Not all cases of sexual assault involve violence, cause physical injury or leave visible marks. Sexual assault can cause severe distress, emotional harm and injuries which can't be seen – all of which can take a long time to recover from. This is why we use the term 'assault', and treat reports just as seriously as those of violent, physical attacks.

Consent

What separates sex, or a gesture of affection, from sexual assault? It's a matter of consent. That is, both people agreeing to what's happening by choice, and having the freedom and ability to make that choice"

Sorry, @maltravers are you suggesting that trans women accessing a bra fitting service (which, as an pp noted, they may well need if they have have breasts that need a bra) are ‘seeking erotic thrills’?

I find it odd that posters who claim to work in roles that involve violence against women and girls don't have a problem with dodgy blokes having access to women and girls.

This isn’t about giving ‘dodgy blokes access to women and girls’.

It’s about giving trans women access to bra fitting services which they may need to access.

What exactly do you mean by ‘shops that cater to cross dressers’?!

Again. We're not allowed to articulate this, are we?

Fortunately we don't have to. The Internet is awash with men identifying as women violating women's spaces. From the thrill of wielding knives in women's toilets, to getting so excited today ejaculate on toilet paper and underwear, and, of course, carrying tampax, in case they can offer them to the women there

Those women don't matter, Arabella. They're service humans.

But you seem to be insinuating that all trans women are, to use the phrase used previously, ‘erotic thrill seekers’.

Which is both incredibly offensive and just patently untrue.

There are a lot of shops that provide men with 'women's' clothes and underwear.

Men's bodies are an entirely different shape and women's clothes and underwear don't fit properly.

When you see that enough men are absolutely totally upfront about it, so much so that it's become a porn genre, your offence is misplaced.

Take it up with them.

It’s about giving trans women access to bra fitting services which they may need to access.

But why would they be going to departments selling female clothes? If they're looking for something that actually fits.

There are specialist suppliers that can provide bras, high-heeled shoes and whatever else they want in male sizes. They're unlikely to find anything appropriate in the women's department of a high-street store.

Even women with outlying sizes can struggle in normal shops, and most men are way outside that.

It's doesn't take much thought to conclude that finding clothes that fit isn't the point...

With respect not when you seek to apply that to all trans women.

Sure, just the ones trying to access women's spaces and services.

'Accessing a bra-fitting service' is not a 'need' or a right.

Firstly, I can apply to who I like. And secondly, it doesn't matter if it's all.

Not all teachers are dodgy, but they all have to have DBS checks.

If enough men are showing up in women's intimate spaces that it's turned into a porn genre and they are posting their videos online, the time has clearly long past to pretend it's not a problem.

Are you saying that there is no solution to this problem? That women just have to put up with it?

Just a reminder after seeing the little spat above by 2 posters (that may actually agree with each other!)
that due to the deliberately confusing language about trans issues some people use the phrase 'transgender men' to mean 'women who say they are men', and others use it to mean 'men who say they are women'.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/06/third-of-britons-dont-know-trans-women-born-male/
Clarity is important when it comes to these issues!

I subscribe to Ray Blanchard's typology. There are indeed, two types of transwomen, HSTS - homosexual transsexuals, and autogynephiles.

It's pretty obvious why men with AGP would want to access a women only space.

But in either event, women's spaces are for women. They're not there to validate the feelings of men.