Page 3 | What's more important...

wrongthinker · 2024-09-07T12:22:12+00:00

Telling the truth, or having friends? A while ago I would have said the truth is more important. But now that I'm losing friends - good friends who I value and care about - because of speaking the truth, I wonder if I was mistaken. Friendship is so important. Maybe I should learn to go along with things in order to hold on to the friends I still have. Another part of me wonders if they are really such good friends if they are willing to abandon me because of my opinions and beliefs? I don't tend to bring things up in conversation unless I know the other person agrees or we have a history of being able to debate things. But now I'm losing friends because of rumours, mutual friends being offended, and I suspect because some feel it's just a bad idea to be associated with me. It's very hurtful and I'm really sad, especially about a couple of women who have been very dear to me. I feel like I've made the wrong choice - but I'm not sure if I could have chosen silence and lies. I already feel I hide enough. What have you chosen, and how's it working out?

Original poster

wrongthinker · 08/09/2024 08:31

But it would be a way of trying to truly understand where they are, where a lot of people are. Value yourself enough to think that it has also been painful for them to distance themselves.

Thank you. I think I have a lot of incomprehension towards the "other side" because for me it's clear that men can't be women and pretending they can be is a disaster for women and children. I wouldn't even call myself a terf because I don't even consider myself a feminist except in the most basic "women should have equal rights" kind of way. And I also don't write a lot about the ins and outs of the issues - the latest round of cancellations and unfriendings for me was when I said I didn't think men should be allowed to beat up women for sport. Nothing to do with trans.

I don't know where to begin to try to understand my friends' views on this, because I don't think it's about differing views. I think it's more about tribes. Me being accused of being a terf is enough to put me in the tribe of the unspeakables.

Also there are people who put the pressure on others. Who make up lies. They'll say, she said this or that, she hurt me in this or that way. I know she seems nice but this is what she's really like. You can't be friends with someone like that. They sew seeds of doubt about you with others and they also make it clear that they will consider any continued association with you as a problem for them.

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Igmum · 08/09/2024 08:32

So sorry you're going through this @wrongthinker. I tend to be cautious in conversations, outright terfy with others who are sane or getting there, with TRA adjacent and TRAs I just try to say a little thing that might plant a small seed of doubt. Water on a stone. I hope one day we will all be full on terfs (ok being naive but I can dream).

Original poster

wrongthinker · 08/09/2024 08:35

I’m sure they’re not ‘bad people’, but the current climate is such that trans people are seen as the most downtrodden, most marginalised group, and going against that is social suicide in the majority of situations. And not just social, economic as well.

I think this is probably the heart of it. And I also think going against the prevailing views is tolerated as long as you don't make it obvious that you do. Or if you're a man. Men are allowed to dissent.

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GoldenLyonel · 08/09/2024 08:38

wrongthinker · 08/09/2024 08:31

But it would be a way of trying to truly understand where they are, where a lot of people are. Value yourself enough to think that it has also been painful for them to distance themselves.

Thank you. I think I have a lot of incomprehension towards the "other side" because for me it's clear that men can't be women and pretending they can be is a disaster for women and children. I wouldn't even call myself a terf because I don't even consider myself a feminist except in the most basic "women should have equal rights" kind of way. And I also don't write a lot about the ins and outs of the issues - the latest round of cancellations and unfriendings for me was when I said I didn't think men should be allowed to beat up women for sport. Nothing to do with trans.

I don't know where to begin to try to understand my friends' views on this, because I don't think it's about differing views. I think it's more about tribes. Me being accused of being a terf is enough to put me in the tribe of the unspeakables.

Also there are people who put the pressure on others. Who make up lies. They'll say, she said this or that, she hurt me in this or that way. I know she seems nice but this is what she's really like. You can't be friends with someone like that. They sew seeds of doubt about you with others and they also make it clear that they will consider any continued association with you as a problem for them.

They sew seeds of doubt about you with others and they also make it clear that they will consider any continued association with you as a problem for them.

Divide & Conquer tactic. They’re trying to isolate you as you are ‘the enemy’, and leave you without a support system, which in turn makes it harder for you to defend yourself against what is being spread about you. They know what they are doing. It’s toxic and manipulative.

Original poster

wrongthinker · 08/09/2024 08:41

GoldenLyonel · 08/09/2024 08:38

They sew seeds of doubt about you with others and they also make it clear that they will consider any continued association with you as a problem for them.

Divide & Conquer tactic. They’re trying to isolate you as you are ‘the enemy’, and leave you without a support system, which in turn makes it harder for you to defend yourself against what is being spread about you. They know what they are doing. It’s toxic and manipulative.

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Yes. But they present themselves as so kind and caring, they are so upset about having to say anything bad about you, etc. They are crybullies.

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CurlewKate · 08/09/2024 13:46

@wrongthinker "I'm not a racist."

Could you clarify where I called you a racist?

Original poster

wrongthinker · 08/09/2024 14:27

CurlewKate · 08/09/2024 13:46

@wrongthinker "I'm not a racist."

Could you clarify where I called you a racist?

You called yourself a racist, I think. Said that you don't say what you think as your parents and kids would disown you for racism.

I don't know if you are trying to say that believing there are two sexes is comparable to racism, or you think I'm losing friends over racism or what. I just wanted to be clear that I'm not a racist.

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