Why do men hate us so much?

[niadainud]

Just off the top of my head, in no particular order:

Incels
Afghanistan
Excessively patriarchal religions where women are totally subservient
Using sex workers
Human trafficking
Domestic violence
Rape
Low-level sexism
Andrew Tate, etc.
Erosion of women's rights including, but not limited to, transactivists
Shitty dating behaviour such as ghosting and negging
Drag / "womanface"

Yes, I know some of the above can be perpetrated by women, but it's usually men, isn't it?

Good post.

I agree with the poster who talked about the Abrahmic religions. Obviously the religions are a symptom, condensing a wider culture into simpler rules.
But the OT with Eve being made by the rib of Adam, and later the concept of original sin, shows this obsession with women needing to be subservient to men. And I agree it has to do with sex and the fact that women make life and used to be the only one of your parents you could guarantee was your parent.

There are lovely examples of more egalitarian societies.
Most of western societies, for all their movements towards granting women more rights on equal footing with men, are steeped in religious nonsense regulating women’s sexuality.

I agree with another poster who said that it related to male strength in the past. This continues today with the legal battle re warehouse workers and shop assistants. It is also why I believe that there is so much misogyny in socialism - many socialist men believe that their jobs take priority over those of women. I'm no Tory but I've observed family members with these views.
I read a theory years ago that men could never be sure that their children were actually theirs and that is why women had to be kept in line from a young age e.g. to be a nice, feminine, sweet girl - no promiscuity etc. Obviously that doesn't apply now.
Feminism has really enraged men imho.

Misogyny is the cause of religion - not the other way round. Theism developed as a way of explaining that the world was really created by men, not women. All religions are built around dominating and controlling reproduction, property and populations. But it's not something inherent to spiritual faith -we all know plenty of non-God belief systems and institutions that are equally misogynist. Remember that when they did the research they found Catholic priests commit abuse at the same rate as the general population. Religion is a smokescreen. (And religious structures have often been useful as sources of autonomy and refuge for women as well - the atheists haven't come up with the equivalents of the nunnery or WI yet.)

Men hate women because they can - they are bigger and stronger than us. And because we give birth that renders us doubly vulnerable and dependent.

Just like empires were built by those who had better weapons, male dominance has been enabled by male superior physical strength. "All wars are battles of competing technology" as Margaret Atwood wrote. Women do not have the (biological) technology to dominate. This is why any properly feminist society depends on heavy regulation, sanctions and incentives for men to stop hating women. They won't do it on their own. 'Anti-carceral feminist' is a contradiction in terms.

And Mr Menno 🙂

I quizzed my DH about why men don't police other men behaving crappily.
He claimed that men don't see 'men' as a group. They are just other people and nothing to do with him.
I do think my DH sees women as just other people. But if lots of men think the same as him about men but see us as secondary then we just fade into the background.

Well. Men are humans made in the image of god Women were put together from a spare rib to keep the human company. Support subhumans.

At least no-one suggested 9 year olds were women and old enough for intercourse (rather than non-vaginal sex previously) as found in the writing of e.g. Ayotollah Khomeini.

Now, there's a religion that hates women.

I didn't post on this thread until like @Beginningless I read with despair about Dominique Picol and what her husband and the 50 men he recruited did to her. There is no female equivalent to that festering clump of crimes imo; I've come across crimes of exploitation by women against men (modern slavery type crimes) but not recruiting a crowd of women to fuck a man who had been drugged into a coma.

And it's interesting that there was no physical strength used - it was a drug-based crime. In medieval times up to the 20th century women were often accused of using poison as it was acknowledged they didn't have the physical strength to kill most men. Men weren't accused of using poison in the same way, it was seen as underhand and deceitful - 'just like a woman'. Whether there was any actual sex difference in the use of poison, I don't know. The accusation is enough.

Across many cultures and for centuries we have routinely, gelded/ neutered male domestic or working animals that we don’t want to breed from because their testosterone levels make them unmanageable and dangerous.

Men are naturally more aggressive and violent and I suspect we have no idea about just how strong their sex drive is, particularly when young. Straight men desperately want to fuck women, particularly any attractive woman, but they are not allowed to just fuck who they want. When they have a girlfriend they can’t always fuck her just when they want and not always the way they see on porn, up the arse, hard, oral till they gag. We are the gatekeepers to sex and to what type and frequency of sex they get. I think it really pisses a lot of them off. Add to that the fact they are now educated alongside us and we outperform them in many areas despite being smaller and weaker on average. They also know that a few generations ago every man, however dim and useless, was a king in his own home and got to lord it over his wife. Now they are expected to be equal partners and parents. They resent it all and the worst of it is we aren’t even grateful.

This. IMO it's a matter of simple physics. Men, as a class, use our physical vulnerabilities against women, as a class.

Agree. The early church fathers spared no pains to eradicate what Jesus actually said about women because they could get away with it. Sometimes, I think the version of Christianity now in existence should be called Paulism.

Having read everyone's comments, I agree with the importance of sex drive / testosterone. I don't think many women can really understand it - few women would throw away their home, their family, their career, their life for a quick shag with a hot young thing...but men do it all the time!

Secondly, before Christianity, many societies were matriarchal. Celts worshipped the Earth Mother, Danu, and were governed by women as the wise lifegivers. Society/ civilization was re-shaped to benefit men...which leads to what I consider to be the third influence...

Where are we? Where are the famous female scientists, engineers, architects, inventors etc? I personally believe that my DH, himself an engineer, thinks women generally are less intelligent than men as they are worse at STEM subjects. We have the exact same points at GCSE and A-Level and met at Uni where we got equivalent degrees... but he still thinks his subjects were harder 🙄

A recent study showed that only 1 in 4 characters in film, TV, literature, etc were female.

So, testosterone-fuelled men see women predominantly for sexual purposes, reinforced by a culture in which we are either missing, subservient or sex objects. The majority of men don't hate us, they just don't value us for what we are.

There may be an element of that, but I think primarily it’s about their own survival in the male hierarchy. It’s just not worth it to most of them to stick their heads above the parapet.

A further point - why do doctors never criticise other doctors? Because if they cover for each other, when they make a mistake, hopefully someone will cover for them and they won't be imprisoned or financially ruined.

So it is with men. If they don't criticise other predatory men or porn users or creepy harasses, those other men will cover for them. And they won't have to do the mental work of considering how good or bad their own behaviour actually is.

(Edited for typo)

Whether a man who is challenged by another man will see the error of his ways or violently attack him in retaliation (could have a dangerous weapon) is playing Russian roulette. Men have to think of their own families.

Because they are stronger and able to vent their inadequacies on those who are smaller and weaker and less able to defend themselves.

Testosterone. Men value themselves in relation to other men. So they won’t stand up to men’s treatment of women as the male view or threat is always more important to them.

They will however defend women if it makes them look good or desirable.

I do think men positioning themselves in the hierarchy of other men is a big part of it.

I think quite often of this study quite often:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4503401/

'...lower-skilled players were more hostile towards a female-voiced teammate, especially when performing poorly. In contrast, lower-skilled players behaved submissively towards a male-voiced player in the identical scenario. This difference in gender-directed behaviour became more extreme with poorer focal-player performance. We suggest that low-status males increase female-directed hostility to minimize the loss of status as a consequence of hierarchical reconfiguration resulting from the entrance of a woman into the competitive arena. '

Basically, insecure men try to make themselves feel better by attacking women.

The hatred of women runs a lot deeper than those who overtly attack women though. Even the men who claim to 'love' women and claim to be feminists etc are usually under the surface just as misogynistic without even realising it themselves.

I think some men are terrified of women but I've never really understood why.

They must be terrified of us to do all the awful things they do to women.

This isn't a new thing though, men have always wanted to control, harm and kill women.

Men only hate those of us who demand equal rights. They love the women who are subservient.
And why not? You get an easy life, you are treated as a hero from birth (brave little man), you're strong, you're great all round.
So someone, some insolent woman objects, how dare they? Bitches karens whores etc etc.
Maybe I'd be better off as a man. Well yes obviously. Life as a bloke is easier.

IME, some men just don't see women as anything other than possessions or commodities.

How many women douse their ex-boyfriends in petrol and set them alight? Or throw acid in their face?

As for why men hate women, I had a discussion with a friend decades ago (more to do with why men oppress women rather than hate them) and she thought it was because they can never know for sure that a child is theirs. We know a child is ours, it came out of us. Men can never be absolutely sure, not until recently with DNA testing anyway.