Why do men hate us so much?

[niadainud]

Just off the top of my head, in no particular order:

Incels
Afghanistan
Excessively patriarchal religions where women are totally subservient
Using sex workers
Human trafficking
Domestic violence
Rape
Low-level sexism
Andrew Tate, etc.
Erosion of women's rights including, but not limited to, transactivists
Shitty dating behaviour such as ghosting and negging
Drag / "womanface"

Yes, I know some of the above can be perpetrated by women, but it's usually men, isn't it?

Some (many?) feel that might is right…the powerful rule over the weak. That they are inherently superior because of this. And by weak, I mean physically. Women are by and large at the mercy of men not abusing their power.

I think it's important for us to remember that it was not always thus, and not everywhere. I believe the subjugation of women is a relatively recent phenomenon in the 200,000-300,000 years of human history.

I also agree with a pp that it isn't just about physical power, or because they can. That is the ultimate method of enforcement, but it's not the reason for the violence. Nobody beats up the king, however small and weak. A powerful person in a tribe is a clever person who is good at manipulating others, or good at forming relationships an alliances. The perso who mysteriously knows stuff that other people don't - like where to find water, how to make fire, etc, etc. That person may not be particularly powerful physically and may be male or female. I give womb envy a vote.

Edited for grammar/typos and clarity.

And when you give almost anyone absolute power over someone else, they will abuse it.

Yes I agree, this is the root of it. Men since the dawn of time have been suspicious of the power women have over the creation of life. This is why the idea of witches took hold. Women obviously had some magical power that men didnt, so who knows what other powers they were hiding. Its simple fear of the unknown. We might now know the biological processes and how they work but the fear is deeply ingrained.

I was asking myself this the other day when I read that horrific story about the man in France who is being tried with 50 other men whom he invited to have sex with his wife who he had drugged. They were men of all ages from all walks of life. The brutality is just utterly unfathomable.

I don't think women control it exactly - I mean any more than men do. I can't just decide to have sex with any man that I want to, any more than any man can do so with me. It's more that those men think they should have the right to have sex with anyone they want, however unrealistic.

For example I wouldn't think I could sleep with a 20 years younger rock star. But a certain kind of man would be raging that a glamorous famous women or even unfamous woman wasn't interested in them. Even incels could probably find someone to sleep with if they were more realistic, but they all think they should be able to sleep with Taylor Swift, and hate her because they can't.

When I was in my 20s, a number of the guys in the office in their late 50s thought I would fancy them. It was just ridiculous. And they got quite angry with me for not being interested. Twats.

If one group is advantaged and know that in their advantage, another group is disadvantaged, rather than acknowledging this is not fair (and fairness is important to all animals, check out the Ted talk on monkeys reacting to unfairness), they will come up with all kinds of 'reasons' to explain and justify it. Literally all western culture, and quite a few from other parts of the world, are founded on explaining/excusing/justifying this. But similar dynamics in any unfair treatment of a group but another.

It's not really about sex. It's about male entitlement to women's bodies. Women became chattel traded like objects, spoils of war. Women and girls were given in marriage to appease rivals and ensure peace. Tribes would raid villages to steal women because polygamous marriages meant there weren't enough women to go around.

Even now girls and women are sold to men or traded. Women's sexuality is controlled through so called honour based abuse or genital mutilation. Sexuality in women is seen as shameful.

It's all about control of possessions.

I suppose historically women were "service humans" for men due to lesser physical strength and the distraction of mothering. When women wanted more/equality men became angry and affronted because it meant women taking a share of what men saw as rightfully theirs (and to add insult to injury, reducing their service role to men). And so it continues...

NAMALT but many men (and women) who say they are feminists and don't actually hate women, still consider women in some way to be inferior humans, even if that's just subconsciously. For example the men who assume the children will have their surname, just because they are the man. But suggest a man might choose to take his wife's surname, he is horrified. Apparently it's fine for a woman to be defined as "wife of man" but for a man to be defined as "husband of woman" is beyond the pale.

I missed off the middle bit of my post, somehow.
I meant to add that the hate may have had its roots in resentment/envy, but first of all women's power/authority/mystique/humanity had to be denigrated to enable and justify the violence. Otherwise it would have been sacrilege.

It's exactly this. Whenever you're dependent on someone else, resentment starts to build. Men and women each have power and control over the other, only it manifests in different ways.

Men are pretty much led by their sexual desires. Obviously namalt, but in the whole sexual drive is the strongest human force. The most powerful of men have been brought down because of a 5 minute dip of their wick. And they did so because the drive is incessant and extremely powerful.

When one needs the other, especially if they don't get their needs met as and when they would like, anger builds.

This is also the reason so many women hate men. One only has to spend 5 minutes on mumsnet to find many examples of unbridled hate and resentment.

That is because men have more physical power, and in a way women feel controlled (or their freedom threatened) by men. Additionally men often have more financial power, and women resent being dependent on men for that.

Overall, in a well balanced society (macro level) or relationship (micro level), where each gender gets their needs met while providing the other's needs, there's love. Anger and hate starts to foment when one side feels - rightly or wrongly - that they're holding up their side of the bargain, but the other party is misusing their power over them.

Hence why the Masons exist …

Also, men are incapable of the multiple orgasm 🧚‍♀️

The Masons are a thing because men don’t share any significant collective powers such as having children.

Most early Christian scholars seem to have had no interest in sex with women and also to dislike them (see St. Paul). Interestingly, one finds that gay men are often deeply misogynistic, calling us breeders and saying heterosexual sex is just about making babies. Truly, I have come across this with gay men, ones who would consider me a friend, too!

Nah. Men just hate women for being women. Some women hate men because of what men have done to them or general violence against women. Not the same.

I used to read Gay men's magazines and found them to be shockingly misogynistic. Obviously not all gay men are misogynist but what's sad is that feminism has traditionally supported gay rights yet we've never had that support back. This has been particularly poignant with the attack on lesbians and their erasure due to Trans ideology.

The Latin Fathers in particular but most Christian scholars openly despised and reviled women. Luther was famous for saying women were either wives or prostitutes.

Yes, it really should be called Violence By Men. Then - how to deal with the men that are being so violent. What are the commonalities, what are the useful ways to work with these men to make them less violent.

Yes all those women supporting gay men during the AIDs crisis. Dont see that the other way round - quite the opposite.

I need to speak up for James Dreyfus here.

Fully agree with this. Our hormones drive us and the testosterone drives men to crave power and sex. I don't think we truly realise how sex driven men are and when they don't get it (not even sex but admiration/validation) and feel entitled to it they hate us.

A penis has the power to pound into a woman's orifices. Women can't do that to a man unless they use implements.

The sex act itself is a show of power by men over women. Very difficult to get away from them if they pin you down and force their penis into you.

I am heterosexual and enjoy sex just as much as anyone does, but it sometimes strikes me that a lot of power can lie in the prick. And they know it, so it's their way of counterbalancing the power they believe women have in procreation.

I need a cup of tea now, the above was a bit of a stream of consciousness!

Agree with 99% of what everyone has said - I also think add the tendency for men to externalise their problems (and women the opposite) to the mix and you have a melting pot of misogyny ingredients.

Yes NAMALT but rare is the man that truly sees women as his equal.

I believe it was st Augustine who invented the "enjoy sex in your twenties, become trad catch in your thirties" pathway.

I think definitely the influence of manicheism (think I spelt that right) etc, on early Christianity helped foster a discomfort with sex, bodily urges etc that clashed with other Christian teaching along the lines of "go forth and multiply" and the importance of mothers
It's led to some very confused thinking.

But Christianity also teaches about responsibility, against just abandoning mothers/women etc,. It would have been an improvement on past times when you could just sell your children into slavery. And jesus had women around him. So it's kind of nuanced.

Because they can.

It's confusing because sometimes the message is that men need understanding when they make mistakes/behave badly because of how powerful the male sex drive and testosterone are. I can understand that
But then it's also not fair to suggest that those things can at times be destructive/harmful even though they might have been used to explain harmful behaviour 5 seconds previously.

This makes it really hard to discuss issues at all. If you are happy to walk home alone or do riskier activities you have clearly been brainwashed by feminism and films into thinking you are as strong as a man etc. If you don't, it's proof you don't trust men and that's hurtful etc.