‘Demure and mindful’ - oh great.

[LunaNorth]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm23zye08j4o

So this trend. I’m bridling at the ‘demure and mindful’ bullshit being promoted by someone who is performing femininity.

Demure and mindful women seldom make history. Here we go again, being sent back into our boxes by men.

99.9% of Tiktok is a pile of narcissistic, childish, mediocre wank for people with a five second attention span.

<gavel>

It’s quite obvious she’s trans from the big picture, neither she nor the article have attempted to hide it.
i haven’t seen any of this trend apart from as exhibited by my daughters who are treating it as a joke - taking the piss out of the trad wife/clean girl aesthetic trends, it’s tongue in cheek a bit annoying sometimes) if anything it’s highlighting those expectations of femininity and laughing at them.
I think you have seen a tiny bit of information and jumped to some quite big conclusions to be honest.

Regardless of who the speaker is, what’s wrong with encouraging people to dress and act for the occasion and staying classy?
It is not a race to the bottom. Or is it?

That’s a way of framing it I hadn’t thought of.

To be fair, one person on FWR. Me. Let’s not treat people as an homogenised mass with a hive mind.

Biological realist actually.

What part of this person being male and mocking female oppressive stereotypes while using female stereotypes to define themselves is to be celebrated?

Is it to be celebrated because it is a person with a transgender identity rather than a male comedian? Is it to be celebrated because it is a person with a transgender identity rather than a drag artist?

And yes, the use of preferred pronouns in the article is one that is also harmful collectively to female people because of how it has been used for other issues. Including prison and sports.

That you can’t acknowledge that is part of the issue.

Then why is it so commonplace to see threads like this? Every time a trans person is on TV, in the media, there's a trans character in a show, etc, a thread pops up here, making up reasons why it's awful that this trans person did whatever normal and mundane thing they did. It's clear there's a significant number of people here who can't see a trans person do anything at all without it making them so furious they have to post about it to people they hope will validate their fury. And that validation is usually found in spades.

You've already got people on this thread talking nonsense about "harm" and "womanface" (as though wearing make up is a fundamental aspect of womanhood)

Then why is it so commonplace to see threads like this?

Why shouldn't people make threads about what they want to? You don't have to read them? In the rest of the site there are thousands of posts commenting on social media influencers for a whole host of reasons, mostly quite critically, about the messages some of them are sending to the women (mostly) following.

He is obviously mocking women. He's like the blokes I was in college with more than 40 years ago with their rape jokes and their lesbian jokes and their crude terms for female body parts jokes, and their hilarious dressing up in miniskirts during rag week japes.

The fact that it is not funny, and that it is offensive to and about women, is and was the point - forcing non-consenting women into an unwanted quasi-sexual situation. Women should not be forced to co-exist with people who treat us as comedy fodder.

Would you defend Rachel Dolezal. If not, why not?

Brings to mind the infamous SF, "Enjoy your erasure" (altho' I've a bad feeling it was 'ur' which I shall ignore).

Yes I was wondering that. If Rachel Dolezal made a "funny"
video about stereotypes about black people I doubt it would go down the same way with the righteous.

It was promoting the idea that women should be ‘demure and mindful’ that pissed me off, especially coming from someone who isn’t female. And the fact that a stupid TikTok trend somehow makes BBC headline news, which suggests that it’s pervading the culture. According to the BBC this summer, we’re either ‘messy brats’ or ‘demure and mindful.’ Neither of which fill me with much joy.

After starting the thread, I see there’s another way to perceive the trend. I’m open to different points of view, which is why I start discussions.

(altho' I've a bad feeling it was 'ur' which I shall ignore).

It was

It’s a joke. A lot of what they say is demure and mindful absolutely isn’t. It’s a piss take of the whole clean girl aesthetic trend. I think trans people are allowed to make jokes about current trends without being seen as monsters.

I see this point. I don’t particularly like it, but I see it.

Yes. We are pointing out the harm. We have pointed it out on multiple fronts.

You have denied it. You have been abusive in describing those who discuss the harms as being driven by bigotry and hate and transphobia. Yet, you cannot articulate a reply to address the opinions that it causes harm to female people.

But others reading it will read the posts and then go and think more about it. That is, after all, how forums work.

If the discussion was to be silenced, then people wouldn’t see how others feel about it. Why do you think women should STFU about issues they see as collectively harmful and the individuals who are part of that harm?

Yep. If you want an antidote there was also this on BBC News -https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj35lk4x86yo

Just a stark contrast to mindless trends and TikTok algorithms. OT sorry!

I don't get the use of 'mindful' by the original TikTokker. Demure I get, below the knee skirts, buttoned up blouses, her voice ever soft gentle and low an excellent thing in women, not expressing opinions, apologising, walking with small steps. But what's to be mindful, unless always aware and monitoring her demureness?
My inner Nancy Blackett is fuming at this trying to push her beck into Ruth!

No one is calling this person a monster. That is just you using hyperbole to frame the discussion as women bullying and demonising this person. That is not the case.

Maybe it's because you don't realise that many people object to the actual concept of transgenderism? Because of the sexism?

It's not about individual people, as such. It's more about men. particularly, claiming to be women on the basis of upholding harmful gender stereotypes.

edited to add, and it's not trans people, as you claim. It's transwomen. Women don't tend to transition for the same reasons.

Please explain the joke part.

Or is this banter - which is never, ever funny (and therefore not a joke).

Maybe you can answer these questions then:

What part of this person being male and mocking female oppressive stereotypes while using female stereotypes to define themselves is to be celebrated?

Is it to be celebrated because it is a person with a transgender identity rather than a male comedian? Is it to be celebrated because it is a person with a transgender identity rather than a drag artist?