Algerian boxer filing legal claim over online harrassment

[GoogleWhacking]

news.sky.com/story/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-at-centre-of-olympic-gender-row-files-legal-complaint-over-online-harassment-13195264

She could have put this to bed by sharing DNA tests. I'm struggling to feel sympathy, although it must be horrid.

I never said men never lose. One of the big issues that is raised is women will never be able to win, well women have won which ruins that argument doesn't it.

I'll leave you all to froth about these two people and their unenviable situation.

I think what people aren't getting is that the masculinisation at puberty for 5-ARD XY indivduals (eg Semanya confirmed, these boxers suspected) isn't confined to their muscle growth.

Most get some penis growth, some get their testicles dropping, most end up identifying as male.

It can be the case that they're not diagnosed until investigation for missed periods if they had very severely underdeveloped genitals at birth, but this isn't CAIS or Swyer - there's a ton going on due to virilisation which would certainly send most people to the doctor.

So we've got a tiny minority (5-Ards) and then another tiny minority of that set (so severely affected that they don't notice they have a penis when they didn't before) and then another tiny minority (sporting talent).

Or we have coaches looking out for this condition and exploiting it in full knowledge of the cause.

The more sunlight the better. Especially this time, given the amount of misinformation in circulation. And an harassment suit is sunlight.

It keeps it in the news. It pushes the entire subject further towards those who want clarification.

I can't imagine Khelif's advisers' motivation, to be honest. Perhaps they think this will put the issue to bed. Or maybe it's a just slice of normal male entitlement.

One of the strands of support for Khelif has been stop speculating about a 'masculine woman', it's sexist, harassing, etc.

But now, they've practically guaranteed its continuance!

And I don't get this it's not cheating if it's within the rules. Is there some official meaning to the word cheating that means that? Because the dictionary definition can mean it's just unfair.

"Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage."

You're having a laugh aren't you?

'What is the purpose of the IOC?' falls into this point too.

The purpose of the IOC is to talk about and tackle cultural taboos and issues that may be more prevalent in less developed countries which includes medical issues.

This is what you said:

You will note he didn't always win which spoils the argument about women will never have a chance in sport.

If a strawman argument is all you have it's best you go and educate yourself.

I don't believe he is a woman, so I'll refer to him as "he".

Thanks for your concern.

As I said upthread, I don't think 'good legal advice in the best interests of the athlete' is being applied here. Even if they think it's a winnable case. It won't end if the case is won, if the ongoing questions about sex are unresolved.

I note your sympathy is only for the men, not the women left bloodied, battered and in Carini's case with a broken nose.

Very telling.

It's unfair even if an amazing woman does sometimes beat a man, because the men are bringing male advantage into the category which is supposed to exclude it. The male boxers are so much more powerful they don't have to be as skilled as the women they are fighting.

So we've got a tiny minority (5-Ards) and then another tiny minority of that set (so severely affected that they don't notice they have a penis when they didn't before) and then another tiny minority (sporting talent).

You missed one - a tiny minority with genitalia on the female end of the scale in the first place. Most are ambiguous rather than "look female"

Having posts removed for calling a male "he" is ridiculous.

I believe that in a UK libel case the defense of truth burden is on the defendant. So JKR would have to show proof that the boxer is male, not the other way round.

But the complaint is in Paris anyway so UK rules are irrelevant. I've no idea how it works there but I do know that in some European countries truth is not an absolute defense. If what you write is true but the motivation served no purpose other than to cause harm, you can still be found guilty of libel.

One of the photos circulating has been one with the individual concerned wearing a groin guard whilst being hugged by coaches.

At the same time we are being told about cultural taboos about men and women in 'these countries' without reflecting on if those cultural taboos were so big there's no way that a female athlete would be a) wearing a groin guard b) being hugged by 'her' coaches.

Step back and think about this. If that picture is genuine (and it's possible it's not), what does the picture say?

Where is the racism/lack of cultural understanding in this narrative?

What we don't talk about is cultural leanings towards understanding systems and being willing to game the system for gain. That might include propaganda or financial benefits as well as individual gain. Not every country has the same cultural respect for the concept of fairness. They see the rules as the limit not necessarily the spirit of the rules. Some countries have much higher tolerance of corruption too. And this is the space the IOC should be all over and addressing.

Well given fairness in sport is at stake I think it'll be an easy win.

All this 'oh but they sometimes lose' I bet that's true across weight categories too
Sometimes he lighter competitors will win against the heavier - shall we get rid of weight categories too?

JKR has the argument about what the IBA has disclosed. And a public interest defence. She wouldn't need to prove that anyone was male.

And yes I know it's typical for female boxers to wear a groin guard.

My point here is we are expected to believe ideas that certain cultural taboos are bigger than they are in practice.

It's certainly an eye-opening post.

Is it a libel action? I thought it was "online harassment".

One woman beats man.

How many women must a man injure badly before he gets beaten by that woman to 'prove' that it's 'fair' because a woman can beat a man?

Think about this.

Having looked at some legal type accounts in X, their consensus seems to be that if any litigation is gone ahead with, it would be about personal harassment of Khelif - not about stating that he is a male. Equally it looks a lot like showboating, so it probably won't happen.

It seems like some of the IBA material inadvertently disclosed his email address. Though I only heard that from a couple of sources, so may not be correct.

So all the JKR haters can stand down. Once again, she is not going to be sued for calling a spade a spade.

I've just looked at the French legislation. Truth is not an admissable defense to libel where the facts in question concern a person's privacy.

Of course, if a brilliant female can beat a male with his genetic advantage, then that argues for the inclusion of males with DSDs in the male category 🤷🏼‍♀️ own goal there 🤣

That makes sense.

But I believe it was the media outlet to whom the tests were leaked who actually published Khelif's email address - inadvertently, I would hope.

Disgusting comment.