Algerian boxer filing legal claim over online harrassment

[GoogleWhacking]

news.sky.com/story/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-at-centre-of-olympic-gender-row-files-legal-complaint-over-online-harassment-13195264

She could have put this to bed by sharing DNA tests. I'm struggling to feel sympathy, although it must be horrid.

That kind of action would be fair. But it's arguably not necessarily in the best interests of the athlete even though it's potentially very winnable.

People don't seem to be grasping that this is a lucrative point and there's multiple levels of potential grifting and exploitation.

You could be right. I was responding to another poster.

https://www.iba.sport/news/iba-clarifies-the-facts-the-letter-to-the-ioc-regarding-two-ineligible-boxers-was-sent-and-acknowledged/

Yes it was disclosed in one of the letters linked from this press release, as was Lin's.

But privacy was given up by competing, which was a choice. If someone is lying publicly in a way that disadvantages others I expect any claims no-one else can talk about that are likely to be dismissed.

French jurisdiction has limitations though.

What can be reported IN France is different to the rest of the world.

So you wouldnt be able to say certain things in France but take one step over the border and you could and the French courts could not do a thing about it.

French law only applies to France.

Twitter could be taken to court for allowing JKRs posts in France (which is a way to produce international censorship of certain subjects - which we have seen before). I'm fairly sure that Elon won't tolerate that and would get into an almighty row with the French government over that point because of the very subject of this.

It raises wider questions about international borders, the law and censorship.

But it's not a problem for JKR either way. JKR isn't going to be arrested if she decides to go on holiday to France.

Mainstream media, yes agreed.

Normal people, much less so (although TBF much as I strive not to have a twitter echo chamber I do block outright misogynists).

I don't do politics on FB cos it upsets some men in California.

Indeed, international law hasn't kept up with technology. I have a law degree (not UK) and I still have absolutely no idea how it works when the complainant in country A is suing someone in country B, who posted information from an organistion based in country C on a platform based in country D (which is insisting it's a carrier not a publisher). It makes my head hurt.

I am struggling to understand the mindset of someone who files a legal claim now but who didn't bother going through with an appeal that would have ended the controversy.

Might the other competitor's teams take some kind of legal action against the IOC, I wonder?

Generally we are told, over and over again, if you have a penis you are male.

Well yes. But that doesn’t mean the converse is true. You can be male, and not have a penis, or what looks like a penis. This is where the DSDs come in.

French privacy law is very strict.

However it was known in France that the two boxers were banned previously for a medical reason cos it happened outside France and french law wouldn't and couldn't stop reporting of a ban. So in was publicly known in France.

Discussion about the nature of that ban would be allowed in France but not the individual personal details if they were made public within France.

It can't cover if it was revealed outside France. Only the reporting of that within France.

If publication is outside France (eg twitter) it raises questions about twitter and liability.

It becomes an issue of American Freedom of speech versus French Privacy law and which takes superiority (and where!) and what the implications of that are.

It then becomes about the US and France in terms of enforcement and enforceability and who, if anyone, is personally responsible.

Would Elon Musk be arrested if he visited France is a more interesting question. Followed by what would Elon do if that happened.

Personally I think taking on Musk on what essentially his hill to die on (even though DSDs are not the same as Trans - the issue of legality to participate due to an F in your passport rather than biology and science unites the issue somewhat), is something of a 'brave' move.

I suspect Musk would rather give up on all support for Tesla in France than capitulate.

If this battle happened then individual boxers at the centre of that, become small fry, and unlikely to be protected from online harassment outside France. Which seems to defeat the point.

Unless of course it's not about privacy at all and it's really about gaming the system for a nice big fat pay out.

As a lot of us suspected, this whole thing is about the money with Khelif. Now the Olympic prize money has been won the route to boxing winnings has probably been cut off (as, hopefully, whoever takes over responsibility from the IBA will ban XYs from women's events). I guess Khelif will concentrate on suing people and sad face interviews from now on.

Couldn't possibly be a financial grift rather than privacy could it? 🤔

(Of course it fucking is. My only question is to the extent Khelif is in on that)

Khelif is extremely unlikely to be able to go professional in any reputable way within organised boxing.

Though I'm sure there's financial opportunities outside organised boxing to beat up women and broadcast it, outside organised boxing.

I don't think it cuts off all financial opportunities by any means. It just means the market is less respected and respectable.

The IOC are entirely to blame for letting it get this far and asking ‘what is a woman’! FFS!

I’ve read an awful lot of info from Dr Emma Hamilton and watched her being interviewed by Andrew Gold, anyone who still doesn’t understand about DSD and the unfairness in these two athletes being allowed to compete in the 2024 Olympics, please give the interview a watch. It’s on Twitter!

I only hope by 2028 normality will resume and cheek swabs reintroduced, so that we don’t have to witness this shitshow ever again!

Very interesting- I'd not be at all surprised if Khelif has internal male genitalia.

If Khalif is proven to be a man genetically, surely the medal will be void?

Khelif signed the death warrant for any boxing career when khelif got into the ring and hit Angela Carini. Khelif will never be able to become a professional boxer so Khelif needs to become a household name and make money being a celebrity.

No because they were within the rules at the time they won. It would be deemed unfair to strip retrospectively (despite it being unfair to all the women that they were allowed to compete in the first place).

It’s utterly heart breaking to imagine what Imane Khelif must be going through. To have your identity questioned and to be publicly called a man must be incredibly painful, especially after dedicating your life to your sport and achieving such success. I can’t even begin to fathom how devastating it must be to face that kind of scrutiny and cruelty from people who don’t know you.

How many of us have ever had our chromosomes checked at birth? Most of us simply take our identity for granted, without ever having to prove it to anyone. At what point do people think she “became” a man? The idea is absurd and dehumanizing. Imane has been living her life as a woman, facing all the challenges and triumphs that come with it, and now she’s being forced to defend her very existence.

No one deserves to go through this kind of public trial. The focus should be on supporting her as a person, respecting her identity, and recognizing the hard work and dedication she’s put into her sport. It’s a reminder of the importance of empathy and kindness, especially in situations where we might not fully understand someone else’s experience.

@GoogleWhacking I think he’d struggle to prove bullying and harassment when the interview with his own coach published overnight states categorically that they’ve known all along he is an XY male, however he identifies.

If there have been death threats etc, then these should absolutely be investigated, though I have no idea whose jurisdiction this is. No matter what my feelings about his cheating lying ass status is, or my disgust at the physical harms inflicted up on multiple female competitors by Khelif and Lin, no-one should be threatened.

Personally I’d like to see a class action by all the female competitors in this Olympics against the IOC and then, given the evidence is clear that Lin and Khelif utterly knew that their XY status renders them karyotypically male, the individual boxers for assault and fraud.

That was a remarkable post. It was very clear that the poster is someone who completely lacks empathy for female people while centring a male person.

I have seen this before. It is a feature. Centre a person who directly benefits from a female person being harmed because a poster believes that female people can and should be exploited to provide something that the poster has sympathy for. But never sympathy for the exploited female people. Whether it is women and children for surrogacy or women to provide 'sport' for a male boxer.

And any person who points out that female people are being utilised as resources is vilified. The lack of consideration for those female people comes through clearly though. And that post was fucked up. But hey. ... right side of history, yes?

You're using "sex" and "identity" interchangeably.
Please don't.

Khelif was male from conception.

Read.The.Thread.

This is all the fault of the IOC along with the Algerian boxing team, who knew the facts of the DSD, but persisted entering Khelif in the women's category.

There is no way that the DSD was not known about years ago......and in spite of the fact that the birth certificate and passport have female sex markers, Khelif really has not 'lived' or 'presented as' a woman since childhood. All the evidence is there.

Let's now turn our attention to the female competitors - who have all trained hard for years in a sport which has traditionally not been seen as suitable for women; who stood no real chance against a genetic male - at the highest level of the women's game.. Empathy for the deep anger and sense of injsutice they must be feeling; plus astonishment that in a contact sport such as boxing, nobody showed any concern for their safety at all.

Ooo where was that published? In France? Or outside France?

If it's in France, then the publisher would be liable to prosecution too. As well as the coach.