Thread 3: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

To continue the discussion.

Thread 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5133749-thread-2-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?utmmcampaign=thread&utmmedium=share

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

I don't have preconceived assumptions.

🤣

then you are literally the only person in the world who doesn’t

but well done you 👍

And I re read these posts. I still think any implication that Lin is a ‘ladyboy’ came entirely from the inside of your head

Women reading articles on the internet should reach through the screen and perform a chromosome test on the article’s subject? Heavens

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

Women reading articles on the internet should reach through the screen and perform a chromosome test on the article’s subject? Heavens

Sorry, I misread you. I thought you were asking how organisations should ID them.

As for people on the internet - we shouldn't, past the most surface-level indicators. It's damaging and quite often incorrect.

As for people on the internet - we shouldn't, past the most surface-level indicators. It's damaging and quite often incorrect.

So you don't think we should be discussing what is currently happening in the women's boxing then?

Even if/when it is conceded by the IOC (which is in possession of those facts but doesn't want to talk about it) that there are two boxers competing for medals in the female category with XY karyotype, that will be waved away too.

Women's sport is now mixed sex.

Lin Yu-ting shown rabbit punching Esra Yildiz Kahraman in the back of the head here:
https://x.com/babybeginner/status/1821317356058243175

Yes, they should have an official sports passport - like the baby books we had as children with test/vaccinations/notes of milestone achievement signed off by HV, GPs, audiologists etc. And IBA/WBO on with all the blood test details (the XX/XY ones, their regular doping screen results) and then a formal record of bouts. It could be online or physical. They should be required to show/share it on demand.

yeah that was an illegal hit, and the boxer had plenty time to not to throw it (as in, it wasn't like the opponent turned away as the punch was thrown). The ref should have at least deducted a point.

FWIW, I don't think it is particularly helpful to comment on these competitors' (a) genitals (b) appearance and presentation. My reason is that the only thing that matters in this situation is: do these individuals have the advantages of male puberty?

Having said that, The Righteous might therefore have a look in the mirror at themselves, before they (yet again for the umpteenth time) post so confidently about these individuals having vaginas/wombs/Fallopian tubes, and "look at all the photos of them dressed as cute little girls!"

Well, thankfully I've not done that.

Agree. If you're a female boxer then, in my view, you've earned the right to speculate but, as for the rest of us, I'm not interested.
Furthermore it takes the spotlight away from the IOC which is where it belongs.

No, discussing it is fine. Trawling through images? Less so.

Snowypeaks
Why does no journalist say "man" or even "male"? Even in the article in the Telegraph.

From an interview with Daley Thompson in The Telegraph today: "In their insistence that womanhood can be determined by passport status alone, the IOC have created the astonishing situation where two biologically male boxers, Algeria’s Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan, are now guaranteed Olympic medals in the women’s competition. They were disqualified from last year’s world boxing championship by the International Boxing Association, who said the DNA of each fighter “was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes”. Neither appealed against the findings."

No idea why a link to the wrong article's popped up. The interview with Daley is worth reading anyhow.

We’re in a tight spot.

We know about men in women’s boxing because people looked at them, then checked information online.

If we don’t look at them and check information online how do we ever know?

Yes, it’s distasteful. Yes, I am aware my own familiarity with women in some racial groups above others will influence how accurate my ‘eye’ is with others. I self censor. I verge on the side of caution. And I don’t think I mentioned any names.

Still images are unhelpful anyway, at least for me. Video is far more explicit.
I was interested in my own response to a tiny Chinese athlete. So very evidently female- though I can’t articulate why.

Interesting video emphasising the difference between men’s and women’s gymnastics, that they aren’t replicable between the sexed as the training is so different. Illustrated by a woman doing a range of frankly ridiculous shimmy flickers that irritated me no end. Room for a conversation about that too.

This situation has resulted in the perfect scenario for MRAs - they get to chastise women for objecting to men in their sports under the guise of Be Kind™️ and inclusion, whilst simultaneously enjoying watching men punch women on television.

Great idea 👍 IMO nobody should be entering any professional sports competition without proof of their sex. It’s not much to ask really. You’d think sportspeople would be in support of fairness.

I don't think introducing complex conspiracy theories about Bacyadan is helpful. If she were an actual rather than transman she'd hardly be so strongly in favour of sex testing.

we shouldn't, past the most surface-level indicators.

While I agree that naming names on the basis of a single still photo is problematic, surface level indicators are exactly what people are looking at in photos (except some very special people in favour of men punching women for money, who can apparently see fallopian tubes).

One country withdrew its entire "female" team that year! I will have a Google to see if I can find which one.

Horses have sports passports, don't they?

Thanks - good old Daley Thompson! But I meant journalists, really.

God I know. Absolutely sickening 🤬

That's a quote from the journalist, not Daley: Oliver Brown from the Telegraph. He absolutely sees it.

I've just called the police.