Thread 3: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

To continue the discussion.

Thread 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5133749-thread-2-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?utmmcampaign=thread&utmmedium=share

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

😂😂

Why does no journalist say "man" or even "male"? Even in the article in the Telegraph.

Sure. All the speculation about the Thai boxer on this thread; analysing her images, her occupation; even down to this from ShortShriftandLethal:

I have a friend who lived until recently in Cambodia...he's gay. He says gay men are not socially accepted at all and are still expected to marry women. The Ladyboy phenomenon is the only way for gay men to be able to access other men in a socially acceptable way.

Misunderstandings about other cultures and the spectrum of how other sexes present is fine. Conjecture and implication - without evidence - like the above is not.

@ChaChaChooey

Oh, and for the 100th bloody time, we don’t care about femininity, we care about femaleness.

Really? I think it's both, given from what I've seen on this thread.

Femininity has fuck all to do with boxing, mate.

@ChaChaChooey

Sex is really important to sports - it’s why we have two sexed categories for almost everything.

I realise you don’t care about the integrity of women’s sports but please stop mocking those of us who do.

There's no mocking here. Why would you say I don't care for the integrity of women's sports? Because I don't share exactly the same opinions as you?

No, it doesn't. Why all the posts in this thread then picking out athletes that look too masculine - a bit suspicious? Making the Thai boxer a target, in fact?

@MessinaBloom you just using "racism" as an attempt to derail and set down the conversation. There has been no racism and your example contains none.
It's a shameful ploy.

How is it a derail? What I'm seeing makes me uncomfortable. Posters are trawling through images, picking out those they deem don't fit Western ideas of what a female looks like, and that's not racist?

This is a second hand anecdote, so how exactly you like it to be evidenced?

What exactly does this anecdote imply that isn’t clearly stated, in your reading of it?

Same sex marriage is not recognised in Cambodia.

There is no official legal recognition of being transgender but according to Google some Cambodian trans people have been able to obtain changed documents on request.

In 2007 the Cambodian Prime Minister publicly disowned and disinherited his adopted daughter because she is a lesbian.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/cambodia-pm-slammed-for-disowning-lesbian-daughter-idUSBKK114156/#:~:text=Hun%20Sen%2C%20a%20former%20Khmer,disown%20her%20from%20my%20family.%22

Cambodia doesn’t seem like a great place to be gay to me but perhaps you have a competing anecdote that will prove Cambodia to be a gay paradise?

The only person who seems to think beauty standards, western or otherwise, are relevant is you.

The rest of us are looking at sex characteristics.

For the 100th and 1st bloody time, it’s not masculinity that’s the problem, it’s maleness.

picking out those they deem don't fit Western ideas of what a female looks like, and that's not racist?

No-one is looking at "beauty standards" though are they?

Also, the country/region in question is not even one subject to that particular trope. Quite the opposite, women in the region are often fetishised by pervy Western men for supposed hyperfemininity, so your accusation doesn't even make sense.

@ChaChaChooey

What exactly does this anecdote imply that isn’t clearly stated, in your reading of it?

Very obvious - that the boxer might be a 'ladyboy'. You'd also need to read it in context of the helpful images provided.

@ChaChaChooey

The only person who seems to think beauty standards, western or otherwise, are relevant is you.* The rest of us are looking at sex characteristics.*

Not from what I've read. Both seem to be important. I said nothing about "beauty standards" either - I said " Western ideas of what a female looks like". That is quite different. It is relevant, as female athletes may be profiled inappropriately when these standards are applied. That is what I'm seeing happening.

That is what I'm seeing happening.

You are not, you're trying to conjure up a narrative.

The racism accusations pisses me off. They are many, many amazing female athletes from a wide range of countries competing in this Olympics and nobody is questioning the sex of the vast majority of them. The handful that have been questioned - ie some of the football players and boxers are reasonable as we know that there are some XY athletes in these fields. There were similar racist accusations around Caster Semenya who turned out to be XY. Woman aren't stupid, we can tell and it's nothing to do with beauty standards or race.

Back to the boxing, this is on Twitter, we have male power versus woman’s bone structure on a high illegal punch that can have catastrophic results. Whatever the opinion on the two athletes does not negate the importance of sex testing

https://x.com/babybeginner/status/1821317356058243175?s=46

Illegal punch? In the olympics? I don’t mean to sound naive, but I would expect self control and knowledge of the rules as a bare minimum at this level. That’s poor. And obviously dangerous.

The first athletes whose sex was queried and who suddenly withdrew from all competition when sex testing was first introduced in 1966 were the Russian Press sisters. Their race was not the issue, as they were both white, but their masculine physique certainly was.

crikey

I mean I agree with you regarding the pictures. I wish people wouldn't do the speculation stuff. But this is quite the reach. I took no such implication from this post. you might need to consider your preconceived assumptions about thai people (or mumsnetters)

I don't enjoy or join in with the speculation based on appearance, but it's understandable that people are asking questions.

We are being blatantly gaslit about males in the female category. By people on here, by the BBC and many other news companies, by the IOC, by personalities on social media, by our ostentatiously right-on friends resharing a meme post they don't understand did their own research on.

Meanwhile, women are being punched in the head by males, on the telly.

MessinaBloom

We know there are men pretending to be women in the Olympics. Sharron Davies has said she's been contacted by many women being forced into contact sport with them.

We know the IOC won't admit it and that women are being placed in danger deliberately. For public entertainment.

How would you go about identifying them? Or do you believe women shouldn't be making the attempt?

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

I mean I agree with you regarding the pictures. I wish people wouldn't do the speculation stuff. But this is quite the reach. I took no such implication from this post. you might need to consider your preconceived assumptions about thai people (or mumsnetters)

These are the posts in question. I don't have preconceived assumptions.

I've said before: chromosome test.