Thread 3: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

To continue the discussion.

Thread 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5133749-thread-2-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?utmmcampaign=thread&utmmedium=share

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

BettyFilous

Basically, I’m with Ross Tucker on this: eligibility tests, universally applied, would resolve all the uncertainty at a stroke.

Problem is, the IOC have run eligibility tests. Eligibility is based on identity and F in the passport is proof.
There will be no sex testing because it is not relevant to eligibility. A male boxer fighting in the women's competition is not embarrassing, because he is a "woman" by virtue of his identity, and they have decided that his advantage is not disproportionate. The stupid screechy women (us) are just too stupid to see that this is better than a sex category because it includes males who want to fight in the women's category along with some set dressing. So it's actually us, the stupid screechy women who are embarrassing.

Everyone should read their framework document.
https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Beyond-the-Games/Human-Rights/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf#ga=2.219716894.621299853.1686571450-594927581.1678187184

We need somebody to get them to say, in a press conference, that the women's category in boxing is based on identity - and justify it. Because the general public don't realise what the IOC approach is, and what the end result is.

Edited for grammar.

I’d still appreciate any input on who is who in these images. I don’t recognise Imane.

The woman with light brown hair is Roumaysa Boualam who is a defender of Khelif and attended the press conference.

There is another boxer with second name Khelif, Dounia Khelif and the first picture and the woman to the right of the second picture look like her.

The other woman doesn't look like Imane Khelif unless it's heavily filtered.

www.eurosport.com/olympics/athletes/filters/#sport=boxing&country=alg

Sharron Davies has been open in Tweeting that other female athletes in the combat sports have privately said to her that there are concerns about a number of athletes in the female category.

It’s horrible because it throws a question over everybody and we all start questioning what we can see.

As so many have said the IOC could fix make this go away in one fell swoop. But they don’t want to, either because they don’t care or because they know what a can of worms it will open for them.

Wonderful research - thank you!

We need somebody to get them to say, in a press conference, that the women's category in boxing is based on identity - and justify it. Because the general public don't realise what the IOC approach is, and what the end result is.

You know, I think a lot of the public don't care whether or not these boxers are actually men. I've seen all sorts of comments about "sore losers", "crocodile tears", "no one complained in the Tokyo Olympics", "racism" - and even "white trash" to describe Carini .These people want to take women down and if that means allowing men to box against women, well they're just fine with that.

I wonder if things would have been different here if there had been British boxers in contention?

I agree too. It's scandalous that the IOC won't do their job properly but that doesn't mean we should try and do it for them.

Depressing and true, but I think incels are probably over-represented in that "sample", as it were.

I agree it's best not to speculate. It's just really hard to know who to cheer on! I don't want to inadvertently support a man. On the plus side the woman (China's Yang Liu) due to fight Khalif in the final looks to be a pretty safe bet.

I got the photo from Roumaysa’s Facebook. I follow her now.
I see Dhounia and a smiley woman in a hijab. I don’t see Imane. I’m wondering whether someone lost their place to Imane.

That's an interesting thought and I agree that woman doesn't look like Khelif at all.

@bobblebottle I read one of the IBA articles and recall it saying that they tested 5 boxers in the female competition and all 5 were male.

So the other teams' suspicions were 100% correct and the medics' concerns were well-founded.

It's getting harder and harder to agree with the "It's all a Russian conspiracy" crowd.

Don't forget it's also a Jewish conspiracy....

The thing is, we shouldn't have to speculate, because the IOC and other sporting bodies should not permit any loophole that allows males, including those with DSDs, into female competitions. Not only because of male pubertal advantage, but also because of taking away women's rightful places.

However as we know, the IOC does't care about protecting women's sports. We know that they have allowed two males to compete in the women's competition.

I don't want to speculate; I want to be able to trust that the competition is fair, because it is regulated, and because there is consensus on what is fair. However, when I can't trust the authority responsible for ensuring this, I will lean towards trusting my instincts. This doesn't mean that I trust I am able to accurately sex 100% of people. I don't think that. More that I trust that where I sense a disconnect between what I read and what I see, in some cases, I will be right. After all, there is precedent for it.

I think the media should be exposing this scandal, rather than cloaking it in obscurity and scientifically unsound misinformation. Journalists are not doing their jobs; but also, they are restricted in some ways. Realistically they can't speculate about athletes' sex either.

If speculating on here exposes the likelihood of this unfairness being far more widespread than just two athletes, then I am okay with a little speculation. Doing a bit of research this afternoon has really opened my eyes.

I showed the pictures here to My Nigel and put it this way, he and the IOC are not in agreement on a good few counts.

I agree with every word of this.

We should not be in this position. Multiple organisations that should know better have gotten us here

@CaveMum Regarding that Sharron Davies tweet, I have looked at other combat sport athletes and yes, have a few question marks raised. We shouldn't be in this position of questioning everything because no one tells the truth.

I see two issues- the IOC is content to have men with women’s passports in competition with women- and as the rules stand that’s ok. Only where the sports associations have developed rules is that ‘not’ ok. So it’s hard to challenge.

Anyone who might want to challenge it will lose access to future Olympic reporting. AND is at risk of calling it wrong and making the situation wrong by making incorrect suggestions.

Meanwhile women’s sports are wrecked, records ruined, and their health and safety is at risk.

Sport at high level stands to make a lot of money and garner acclaim. If someone decides to allow males to participate in the female category then this will be taken advantage of. It's utterly inevitable.

Does anyone have contacts with contacts that can be joined together? Like Sharron Davies and a sports journalist?

Ross Tucker on the Sports Agents podcast was nice to see. Shame he wasn't on the News Agents podcast as well. According to Jon Sopel and Lewis Goodall we're just a bunch of foaming at the mouth culture warriors.

x.com/sportsagentspod/status/1821093927254159458

Claire Chandler is succinct and direct again.

https://x.com/SenatorClaire/status/1821069241745129565

We've seen this already in football - there are men in some huge European and US teams. All they care about is winning, so they are happy to have the advantage. It's an arms race.

Yes I read that too. Wonder if the other 3 are in the Olympics... Maybe not, since there haven't been comments except for these 2.