Thread 3: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

To continue the discussion.

Thread 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5133749-thread-2-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?utmmcampaign=thread&utmmedium=share

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

That picture is Thitisan Panmod who competes in the men's.

This is Janjaem Suwannapheng, same as pictures above:

I have a friend who lived until recently in Cambodia...he's gay. He says gay men are not socially accepted at all and are still expected to marry women. The Ladyboy phenomenon is the only way for gay men to be able to access other men in a socially acceptable way.

I need to see a picture of their knees… failing that, their fallopian tubes!

Yes, that seems to often be the case in the countries/societies we're told are "gender diverse" (with their "third sex/gender" categories being ways to account for strict sex roles and stereotyping, rather than accepting feminine men).

Do you think that the hijabs have been inserted by AI? 😗 Interesting though that two of the women boxers are wearing hijabs, and the the woman who isn't has long hair. I've yet to see an image of Khelif in a hijab, or with long hair.

Going down the rabbit hole I'm finding this mental.

From left to right I make this out to be Chuthamat Raksat, Janjaem Suwannapheng, Bunjong Sinisiri, Thitisan Panmot (?unsure), Jutamas Jitpong, Thananya Somnuek. They are all Thai boxers.

Four of them compete in the women's category.

https://www.eurosport.com/olympics/athletes/filters/#sport=boxing&country=tha

Just for my own visual reassurance, I knocked up (on my phone so not claiming it's at all accurate!) an idea of Q angles...

Is that for me? Re the Algerian Boxing team? One of them ought to be Imane…

There seems to be very little consistency in the Daily Mail. You'll read one piece that seems sensible and fully gender-critical, and the next piece is all over the place and as bad as the Guardian.

I found these press images of the Khelif-Suwannapheng fight: https://www.gettyimages.in/photos/janjaem-suwannapheng?family=editorial

Thinking about previous posts, I started idly wondering if one of the reasons IOC is resisting taking the obvious steps to reassure national Olympic committees and the wider public about the women’s boxing event is because this is a more widespread problem and blanket testing would be even more embarrassing.

Basically, I’m with Ross Tucker on this: eligibility tests, universally applied, would resolve all the uncertainty at a stroke.

Hmm you might be right

I suspect this olympics is a total write off for women's boxing already and will go down in infamy.

The way forward would be to announce that all competitors in global level events will be subject to sex screening and see how many fall out of contention.

The federations absolutely know the sex of their competitors and hopefully won't want the scrutiny.

I think you're right. if the IOC said, OK, we'll bring back sex tests all round, it'd turn up all kinds of nastys. If the wider public realised that men had been winning women's medals for years in the Olympics, well, that wouldn't look too good, would it? I mean, this thing about three XY men on the 800 m podium in Rio, it's not exactly widespread public knowledge, is it?

There’s a post on Janjaem's Instagram from 2022 of them literally posing in front of a backdrop that says IBA Women's World Boxing Championships and the caption, when translated from Thai, says ‘a little country boy who loves boxing'.

That's Instagram's translation and obviously I don’t speak Thai. Ran it through Google translate with the same result 🤷‍♀️ Maybe they accidentally said the quiet part out loud.

Four of those six are women? I'm struggling to see more than one, and even that's uncertain. But, once again, if there was proper testing, the speculation wouldn't be necessary.

I think hence the attempts to out of the gate to insist that XY people can be women -- female, even.

I'd put money on there being more than the 2 XYs in this contest. For all we know there are TW also competing. If the only eligibility criteria is a passport. How would anyone know?

Yes, four out of six competed as women in this year's Olympics - the details are on that website and on wikipedia.

I agree with you - I see one woman in that picture, with a slight uncertainty.

The IOC is really not going to do sex/gender testing, nor testosterone testing, for this Olympics. They know what the results would be, and they know they would be a laughing stock at best, and at worst a target of anger - and legal battles? (Apart from the allies who would double down and still insist Khelif is a woman.)

My word, I hadn't realised how masculine Suwannapheng looks! Yes, I know, looks aren't everything, but when we are 99% certain we are being lied to about Khelif, we obviously can't take the sex of any of the others for granted.

I think we should resist the temptation to speculate - in writing, at least - about the sex of some of the other boxers without any other firm information. It's the kind of thing that might get the thread taken down.

We can be sure that there are two male boxers at least in the women's competition. There probably are more, but we don't know who they are so it's wisest to leave it there.

Me too. Turn over all the stones and let's have done. Sport should be fair to women.

I agree.

I’d still appreciate any input on who is who in these images. I don’t recognise Imane.

Both me and my husband think first 4 are men, last 2 women.