Thread 3: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

To continue the discussion.

Thread 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5133749-thread-2-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?utmmcampaign=thread&utmmedium=share

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

The point is, if we had testing all the speculation would end. It's unfair on all the boxers. Do tests. It's not about appearance, it's about biological sex.

Janjaem Suwannapheng was reinstated having lost to Khelif in the 2023 IBA Women's World Championship so, presumably, has been confirmed as female by the IBA.

2023 IBA Women's World Boxing Championships – Welterweight - Wikipedia

I don't know, struggling to find information to be honest. This article reports that Khelif previously defeated the Thai boxer in the World Championship semi-finals in 2023. They were interviewed for a Thai newspaper ahead of the Olympic semi-final against Khelif and it reports them as saying they are 'evenly matched', they've prepared their body well and are 'both human' with 'two fists'. It suggests this boxer is up for the fight against Khelif basically. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13714803/Thai-fighter-speaks-Imane-Khelif-Olympics-gender-row.html

Since Suwannapheng competed in the IBA 2023 World Championships, I want to know whether the IBA routinely performs 'gender eligibility' tests, or only on flagged athletes. I think I remember reading that Khelif and Lin were tested because of ringside/coach concerns? Is that correct?

Yes you're right.

I don't blame women for speculating but we should never have been put in a position where we need to.

Far kinder to the athletes to not have their looks and lives and social media scrutinised. This situation is entirely on the IOC. Not the women trying to safeguard women's sports.

Imane Khelif boxing gender row reignites controversy over 800m at Rio Olympics as it's revealed that ALL 3 medallists in women's race had high testosterone - and critics call for their titles to be stripped | Daily Mail Online

https://www.iba.sport/news/iba-clarifies-the-facts-the-letter-to-the-ioc-regarding-two-ineligible-boxers-was-sent-and-acknowledged/

The IBA statement made on Monday says (note these are small snippets from the statement):

'Following many complaints from several coaches, boxers agreed to gender testing.'

'The situation [of the failed eligibility test - my interpretation] was completely new to boxing, and IBA, following numerous consultations, decided to conduct a second testing before disqualifying the boxers.'

'On 12 May 2023, IBA amended its Technical and Competition Rules. After internal discussion, it was decided by the Board of Directors that IBA competitions will be conducted only between male athletes and between female athletes. Participation of DSD athletes (“differences of sexual development”) in boxing competitions were found dangerous for health and security of the boxers.'

These were some of the amendments:

'4.2.1.Boxers will compete against boxers of the same gender, meaning Women vs Women and Men vs Men as per the definitions of these Rules.

'4.2.2.To determine the gender, the Boxers can be submitted to a random and/or targeted gender test which will be conducted by IBA in cooperation with the selected laboratory personnel.'

This suggests that perhaps there was not routine sex testing done by the IBA.

And all look like men, along with all having XY chromosomes and high testosterone.

The Daily Mail is just making it all worse. The first article talks about "false reports" that Khelif is male and how the Thai boxer doesn't know how "her male hormones" have affected Khelif since they last fought.
The second one talks about the podium athletes and their "high testosterone".

Nobody in the mainstream press is interested in telling the truth. They just want to generate even more confusion, enrage more people to get more clicks.

That rather unexpectedly made me tear up!

Me too, a total Katniss Everdeen moment 😍

I think the infuriating thing with the I.O.C's current rules is that we will never be able to be certain that we are not watching x2 males in any given match. The only reason we know about Khelif and Lin Yu-ting is because they had previously been banned for being XY. But in another 4 years (if boxing is still included in the Olympics) I can imagine having no confidence at all that any of the contestants at all were female especially for previously unheard of athletes.

It takes all the trust out of sport. It really is a disaster for women's sports and leaves men's sports completely unaffected.

An Indian wrestler called Vinesh Phogat was disqualified today for not making the weight by about 100 grammes - she even cut some of her hair off to try to make the weight.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/07/india-despair-olympic-wrestler-fails--weight-gold-medal-final-paris-modi

I don't have any problem with weight limits of course, in the interests of fairness, it's just jarring that this is enforced when sex eligibility which makes such a huge difference in boxing, another combat sport, is just chucked away!

My God, yes...definitely looks male in every shot; the physique, everything:

https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/406513-janjaem-suwannapheng

'Participation of DSD athletes (“differences of sexual development”)'

Hmm, interesting. I've always seen it said to mean Disorder of Sexual Development.

I think the infuriating thing with the I.O.C's current rules is that we will never be able to be certain that we are not watching x2 males in any given match.

Yeah. The more I look the more I think this might have already happened. This is the Thai boxer Imane Khelif fought in the semi-final of the Olympic women's match.

Can I just point out that women don't wear sports bras in boxing and karate etc, they are breast guards.

https://www.boxfituk.com/womens/protection/womens-boxing-chest-protectors/

My browser is going to think I e taken up boxing, what with yesterday’s googling as well.

Bet you any money @SinnerBoy, as a woman with boobs, those chest protectors will feel bulky.

I get the distinct feeling that there be many males with DSDs in women's boxing; more than we were aware of. There is another Thai fighter called Jutmas Jitpong who also looks distinctly male. I reckon this has been going on for years in some countries.

https://www.eurosport.com/olympics/athletes/profile/jitpong-jutamas-1898306/

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/773276

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/janjaem-suwannapeng-boxing-masterclass-ignites-olympic-fever-in-thailand/

Ha!!

Anyone else read Monstrous Regiment?!!!

This was Khelif's opponent in the semi final ( note the male dress and no attempt to present as a woman)

www.asbcnews.org/janjaem-suwannapheng-thitisan-panmod-and-wijan-ponlid-received-their-awards-at-the-thailand-national-sports-day/

I think we have found the feminist equivalent to the Mason's handshake 😀

Khelif's opponent in the semi final Janjaem Suwannapheng

Isn't Thailand held up as a "gender diverse" country, with Thai "ladyboys," etc.?

Suwannapeng seems to be in the leading aircraft woman in the air force… receives rank in a skirt and courts shoes. Looking uncomfortable though.

I hate this speculation. But while we are, who is who in this image of the Algerian boxers, do you think? Have they been tweaked?

I’m going face blind.