Can someone explain the Khelif controversy?

[whatsinanameisthis]

I’ll start by saying I’ve read all the major news outlets coverage of the Khelif controversy and am still somewhat baffled. So wondering if anyone who has done more research than I can enlighten me.

From what I’ve read in the papers, Khelif was born a girl, is female, has lived her whole life as a woman. She is not trans, or a man. However she maybe has a condition which leads to elevated testosterone?

I’m trying to understand what the accusation is…

Do we think she’s really a trans man who is lying about having been born female?

Or are we saying that if she is a woman but with a condition, that people with that condition should be screened and excluded from the event? I understand that would seem if the condition isn’t her fault but of course differently abled people are all excluded from the mainstream olympics and instead compete in the paralympics. Or if this condition is real (I simply don’t know enough to understand), could the IOC mandate it’s treated before competitors participate?

Or is this even a question of doping? Is there a suggestion she has been taking testosterone to improve her performance?

I see Jameela Jamil is in the “she’s female” camp which has really surprised me. For sure it’s not totally black and white, but given the context, I would say that there is no room for grey areas either.

Not surprising at all.

Jameela and her #BeKind attitudes to women have been a regular feature over the years on MN.

It's fascinating how the narrative has changed over the last week. We have seen an initial wave of uncritically-boosted misinformation splash across social media and then roll over into mainstream media, neatly providing an opportunity to broadcast anti-trans talking points that would otherwise have been difficult to engineer due to the lack of any trans women competing at the olympics this year. The rumour mill even oversteps and claims that Imane Khelif is actually secretly a trans woman in some cases.

Investigation of the source of this misinformation reveals that it comes from the unevidenced allegations of a disgraced Gazprom-funded organisation - an organisation that has itself been banned from the Olympics due to allegations of corruption alongside its behaviour in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine - with a clear incentive to mire the IOC in controversy due to Russia's exclusion.

The media explodes into deeply problematic speculation over these mysterious results, dragging intersex women into the harmful blast radius and filling the discussion space with a constant barrage of transphobia with racist, misogynistic overtones. Khelif's family have to release childhood photographs and even her birth certificate in order to defend her, while the IOC releases an official statement supporting her.

The disgraced IBA, meanwhile, publicly goes full mask-off with a revealing rant and the media begins to realise that this isn't the story they thought it was. The retraction pieces and statements begin to flow; one of the labs referenced by the IBA reveals that the claims are false and it wasn't even involved; it eventually transpires that there is no conclusive evidence to support the IBA's claims and we are, once again, back to yet another example of Russian shit-stirring to add to the list.

A blissful - and decidedly revealing - silence descends upon those who had previously been banging the anti-trans talking point drum as the world begins to watch who is continuing to push these claims, and the monumental gravity of the impending litigation storm gathers.

It's nice to have a moment of peace in a week that has been dominated up until this point by roaring voices of hate.

The IBA hasn't covered themselves in glory in how they've dealt with the press conference etc, and they have a history of corruption.

That doesn't justify merrily spreading your own conspiracy theories.

It's nice to have a moment of peace in a week that has been dominated up until this point by roaring voices of hate.

Those awful people hating violence against women. So much better when they shut up and letter us watch men punching women in peace.

I'm pretty sure someone will be able to correctly sex you withing 10 seconds. I'm mis-sexed all the time, but people correct themselves quickly after, usually 2 seconds. I don't need to say a thing.

It's obvious the boxers in question have gone through male puberty and not female puberty. Humans are hard wired to be able to spot the difference.

If you can't tell, you're in denial or gaslighting yourself.

When people are outraged and think you're the bigot when you're outraged by men punching women in the face for sport...

Those awful people hating violence against women. So much better when they shut up and letter us watch men punching women in peace.

I know. It absolutely amazes me that these people have the audacity to attempt to take the moral high ground. I didn't think there could be anything worse than people relishing the sight of male violence against women, but actually it turns out that they are trumped by people who relish the sight of male violence against women while having the bare-faced audacity to claim that they are morally superior to anyone who objects.

I actually think most people who are doing it are genuinely trying to "be kind". It shows how much the media and left have managed to brainwash the masses. Educated out of common sense.

Two conversations this week:

Overheard in the pub. White bloke in his 50s to his mates.
"Well I'd like to believe that the IOC are competent and know their stuff and this is all just hype"

Random encounter with somone who was frankly somewhat unprofessional given the situation! Professional Muslim Woman from North Africa in her 60s.
"She's a woman. Its all racist to describe her as a man"

Both seem to be giving the benefit of the doubt / be nice.

Both don't want to look at the information properly because it clashes with their other beliefs and concepts of justice. Its beyond what they want to believe.

The Science of Sport podcast did an episode looking at this, and by the end I was fuming at the realisation that the IOC simply don’t care about protecting women’s sports. They are prioritising inclusion (of men) over safety and fairness (for women). Worth a listen (there’s a follow up about sex testing that haven’t had a chance to listen to yet).

open.spotify.com/episode/3wE8UykA7aOZTPa8yvjWOp?si=OidhLo6FRXaEy0OKCr4w8g

If there was an M on your passport, would that mean you are a man?

ButterflyHatched, have you ever wondered why there's no threat to the integrity of men's sport from trans identifying females, and people with female DSDs? Do you think it's at all possible that a transman could go from a ranking of 462 for women, to amongst the best against men?

Don't forget his 'immutable sex essence'.

Bufferfly is a male with F in their the passport so Butterfly is well aware that what a passport says and what the biology facts are don't necessarily match.

I was a man for a couple of weeks. I phoned up the passport office and they sent me a corrected passport. Which was just as well as the housework started piling up.

I'm not sure I'd bother if that happened to me. I might well just leave it and see what happened. Any hassles and I'd claim not to have noticed. Who checks more than the name spelling and the expiry date anyway?

@ButterflyHatched
Hypothetically speaking, if there was an M in your passport, would that mean you are a man?

Moral high ground?

In the face-punching game?

Heaven forbid that people get punched in the face in this internationally acclaimed and carefully regulated sporting competition where people who dedicate their lives to professionally punching one another in the face compete to see who can punch other people in the face the hardest and most consistently.

A woman who is confirmed by the internationally recognised and respected face-punching regulatory authority as eligible and safe to compete in this face-punching competition - who has previously lost nine other face-punching competitions against other women, several of whom have gone on the record saying that they have no problem competing with her and that they noted nothing unusual about the strength and speed of her face-punching while punching her in the face stronger and harder than she punched them - is being horrendously bullied by the international anti-trans community in a way that endangers her life back home in a country infamous for its hostility toward trans people.

Why? Because of some unsubstantiated claims made by a corrupt, disgraced organisation with an axe to grind, funded by a government which also has an axe to grind and a long track record of corruption and interference, that is currently busy prosecuting the latest of its illegal wars against its neighbours, while brutalising the trans and GNC people within its own population.

Why did this non-story based on a lie spread by a faction with a well-known reputation for lying, gain so much traction? Why was there a sudden cacophony all across the media uncritically and breathlessly promoting this lie? Why are far right voices like Elon Musk and Donald Trump still promoting this lie as fact despite it being resoundingly disproven? Why has everyone else - even many of the publications which routinely post virulently anti-trans material - suddenly gone deafeningly silent, or issued retractions and apologies?

Before lecturing me on taking the moral high-ground, I would strongly advise reflecting on both this particular situation and the wider geopolitical dynamics involved in the rate at which women who just happen not to conform to white euro-centric visions of femininity are so readily demonised and monstered in the name of 'protecting women'. Especially during a week in which far-right misinformation on social media has already led to us seeing the horrifying sight of fascist pogroms on our streets trying to trap minorities in buildings they are burning down.

I hope that if anything good comes from this shameful debacle, it will be that the mainstream media pays at least a little more care to its handling of these kinds of claims in future - they have certainly given themselves a bloody nose over this one.

lol I have to hand it to you Butters, you never cease to cease trying to shame women with your nonsense even though you’ve had your arse handed to you comprehensively on numerous occasions

men are not women
men with a DSD are still men
fuck off trying to link the racist fuckwittery on our streets with women standing up for the rights of other women not to be punched in the face by men whether or not they have a DSD

@ButterflyHatched Do you think Nicola Adams is saying these boxers are male because she's a racist?

do you have a source for the lab denying anything?

Or indeed, for any of that screed?

No I think she's saying it because she has a track record of years of trans-hostile statements that fit a distinctive pattern.

Has she? Can you provide a link to any of those statements