Can someone explain the Khelif controversy?

[whatsinanameisthis]

I’ll start by saying I’ve read all the major news outlets coverage of the Khelif controversy and am still somewhat baffled. So wondering if anyone who has done more research than I can enlighten me.

From what I’ve read in the papers, Khelif was born a girl, is female, has lived her whole life as a woman. She is not trans, or a man. However she maybe has a condition which leads to elevated testosterone?

I’m trying to understand what the accusation is…

Do we think she’s really a trans man who is lying about having been born female?

Or are we saying that if she is a woman but with a condition, that people with that condition should be screened and excluded from the event? I understand that would seem if the condition isn’t her fault but of course differently abled people are all excluded from the mainstream olympics and instead compete in the paralympics. Or if this condition is real (I simply don’t know enough to understand), could the IOC mandate it’s treated before competitors participate?

Or is this even a question of doping? Is there a suggestion she has been taking testosterone to improve her performance?

It's a good point - if Nicola Adams had been beaten by an XY boxer what would have been the "mood" with the UK public?

Unfortunately I do think it would have split along the same ideological lines.

"Boxing's violent anyway"
"Terf!"
"Do we even know what our chromosomes are?"
"Be kind!"
"Bad sport!"

And the other side could be written off as right wing, pro-Russia idealogues.

The Lionesses is an interesting one. I think it would depend on whether management or FIFA had their back. Sure there would be outrage initially just as there was with Carini but very quickly the disinformation propaganda machine would roll in as we've seen here.

The women could very easily be leaned on to go along with it no matter what they thought privately. When the athletes themselves back down then other people start to back down with a shrug and a 'well I guess they're fine with this then, why should I care'.

It just feels at the moment like there is a huge Goliath like machine against women and girls having any fairness or safety in sport on an international level despite some wins we've had local to the UK.

A lot of the women footballers would be very pro men in women's sports. Of course they would see it as "women". LGBT is very much a monolith in women's football.

I suspect you're right.

Mad, isn't it?

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/57/1/26

'The Framework recognises that safety is a concern in some sports. In such cases, eligibility criteria should not rely on an athlete’s gender identity or sex variations status as a proxy for injury risk.Rather, IFs should focus on actual metrics of injury risk (eg, an individual’s size and power) and take into account the variation in such risk factors that is already accommodated across all eligible athletes. Where there are risks in a given sport related to physical characteristics, mitigation measures should apply equally to all athletes who potentially pose a safety risk or are at risk of injury, and not only to those who identify as trans and/or have sex variations, since this would constitute a form of discrimination.'

The trouble is it's all based on 'gender identity', and rigorously avoids sex segregating by attempting to suggest all categorising should be done on an individual level.

'Go, Strong Woman, Go!' appears to be what the IOC is aiming for in the name of inclusion.

Boxers are weighed on the morning of each competition day and undergo a medical examination on each day of competition. If they fail to demonstrate they are the correct weight for the category, or that they are medically fit, their opponent automatically wins as a 'walkover'.

The IOC knew in 2023 that these boxers were, in fact, genetically male. They knew they had XY chromosomes, and therefore had benefited from male puberty.

They have had more than enough time to step in and say that they are not eligible to fight. If they can do it because someone is the wrong weight on the morning of their fight (potentially even by 100g), then they could do it here. The fact that they haven't shows a total disregard for the safety of women.

They have had more than enough time to step in and say that they are not eligible to fight.
Or to say we think the nasty corrupt IBA are spreading vicious lies about you for some inexplicable and inconsistent reason so we are going to run some tests to prove what horrid lying ninnies they are.

Isn’t this case a bit more nuanced? I had read that Khelif has female reproductive organs? I’ve just found out about Swyer syndrome where you have XY chromosomes, you have normal reproductive organs but your ovaries fail to develop. I would struggle calling someone with Swyer syndrome a man. I don’t agree with men competing in women’s sports btw but just trying to understand the full picture.

Where has you read that? Was it fact or speculation?.

If they had Swyer syndrome then they could legally compete under all rules.

They declined to take their cases to appeal, which seems foolish when they could have won so easily if they had xx chromosomes, or Swyer, or CAIS.

I’ve seen it on X. I guess everything is speculation without publication of what tests were done/Khelif saying exactly what they have.

There's no way someone with Swyers would be competing at the Olympics. You're going to have to do a bit better than "I think I read somewhere" with your misinformation.

Looks like the IBA press conference will be tomorrow at midday UK time.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=crKgzcIVf1k

Boxing is drawing people who like to see men hit women, plus others because of this scandal. If every female sport included a smattering of men or, given the advantage, were all men, then I don’t think people would watch. It would turn into the men’s B team category. Why wouldn’t countries send men for olympic women’s sports?

Is that the same Swyer's syndrome that, left untreated, leads to osteoporosis, which would make participation in a high-impact sport very dangerous??

Details details 😂

Like CAH that makes girls who appear masculinised at birth really very ill, unless they have the mild form which still needs constant treatment.

But if they can drag more people with DSDs into it then there's no straw that's not up for clutching. The anatomy of men with Klinfelters, and girls with Turners was being dished up as a gotcha earlier.

I’m only trying to have a discussion as I hadn’t seen this mentioned on this thread yet! You could do with not being so paranoid that I’m a bot trying to spread misinformation.

But a quick Google would tell you that there is no way that an individual with Swyer's would be capable of competing in the Olympics.

Like I said I had only just found about Swyer’s syndrome so apologies for not knowing everything about it yet🙄. Why the need for passive aggressiveness and suspicion?

When I was initially googling I was just trying to understand what Swyer’s syndrome was. I’ve Google Swyers syndrome olympics and this is what comes up. It led to this study at least which I will have a read of https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2500237/. Why couldn’t someone with Swyer’s compete? From what I understood they would need to take hormone therapy to undergo puberty. Would taking female sex hormones not alleviate osteoporosis risk?

Khelif looks like a man - face and body. So when IBA says they tested and found out that Khelif has XY chromosomes, I am more likely to believe that over those who say IBA are not reliable.

XY chromosomes are relevant here because it causes high levels of testosterone, which gives advantage over those with XX chromosomes irrespective of you call them male or female.

But they'd have to know they had the condition. This debate is centering around a person who 'didn't know' they had XY chromosomes, but surprisingly were approached by a coach who spotted their 'physical qualities'.

How many women would be 'acceptable collateral damage'?

It could all have been avoided if he'd decided to punch other men instead.