Can someone explain the Khelif controversy?

[whatsinanameisthis]

I’ll start by saying I’ve read all the major news outlets coverage of the Khelif controversy and am still somewhat baffled. So wondering if anyone who has done more research than I can enlighten me.

From what I’ve read in the papers, Khelif was born a girl, is female, has lived her whole life as a woman. She is not trans, or a man. However she maybe has a condition which leads to elevated testosterone?

I’m trying to understand what the accusation is…

Do we think she’s really a trans man who is lying about having been born female?

Or are we saying that if she is a woman but with a condition, that people with that condition should be screened and excluded from the event? I understand that would seem if the condition isn’t her fault but of course differently abled people are all excluded from the mainstream olympics and instead compete in the paralympics. Or if this condition is real (I simply don’t know enough to understand), could the IOC mandate it’s treated before competitors participate?

Or is this even a question of doping? Is there a suggestion she has been taking testosterone to improve her performance?

khelif is a biological man
The IOC have taken the view that because a passport says F, Khelif is a woman
the IBA did testing and they have XY chromosomes
the IOC have ignored this
it’s not confusing but there are plenty of people trying to obsfucate, otherwise we have just witnessed a man beating a woman for sport

Khelif is a biological male with a DSD (Difference/Disorder of Sexual Development).

He likely has testosterone within the normal male range and has been through a male puberty. This is not the same a 'woman with high testosterone'. Male and female ranges do not overlap.

Due to ambiguous genitalia at birth which is often part of these DSD's Khelif will have been thought to be female or they guessed that female was more likely. By puberty it will have become clear Khelif was male.

Unscrupulous sport scouts and coaches seek out males with these conditions precisely for the purpose of cheating in female sport and making a lot of money. It happens across a lot of sports.

Nobody seems to care about the harm to women or in the case of boxing how dangerous it is for women.

The IOC are a disgrace as are most of the media who run cover for these males.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5134185-co-owner-of-reddux-writes-a-timeline-of-the-growing-discussion-around-iba-truth-and-ioc-truth

Great thread here with lots of links to reputable sources and documents in real time the unfolding situation. Also a filled up part 1.

Thread 2: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes” www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/5133749-thread-2-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?msgid=-5133749#-5133749

OP, start by reading this thread on X.

https://x.com/slatzism/status/1819427537740558848?s=61&t=haffcpWC9mwmf6zkaHVRIg

Also available on Threadreader in case of issues with X.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1819427537740558848.html#google_vignette

Male chromosomes. And male responses to testosterone. Elevated levels of testosterone above the legal limits which a woman would be allowed. Developmental disorder which didn't get picked up at birth. Doesn't have periods and is sterile. It's a condition only males can have but they are mistaken for females and raised accordingly. Testosterone suppression doesn't eliminate the advantages this produces.

This poses safety issues and issues over fairness of competition. Particularly in a contact sport like boxing.

Numerous other sports have barred similar athletes brood this.

The boxing governing body previously banned these competitors. But they had a falling out with the IOC. The IOC is running the boxing with their own rules. Which are fucked in the head and are dangerous. And they are doubling down saying these are women because it's in their passport and that they don't want to go back to sex testing. Unlike all the female contestants who would have to go through this testing.

Then you had a bunch of people jump on saying it's unfair to transwomen when it's got fuck all to do with trans. And everything to do with sex. And sex still being material reality.

OP there is also a second male boxer competing who has just beaten another woman this morning whilst the likes of the BBC cheered it on and made misogynistic comments about how the female boxer just didn't try hard enough against the cheating man.

Yes, agree this is the best source for myth busting some of the disinformation being spread online. There are also screenshots of it on the first page of the FWR thread I shared above, useful to download and share with people.

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I think she has DSD but male chromosomes - so was born without normal visible male external genitalia, brought up as a girl but as puberty kicked in she started to show more male development and did not develop adult female characteristics. She then had testing which revealed XY chromosomes and high levels of testosterone. This is why she was previously banned from female competitions and IMO has genetic advantages which mean she should not be competing in the female category.

I do feel sympathy for her - I have a friend whose son was born with DSD - they decided to bring him up as a boy but were unsure whether he would go through male puberty - in the end he did and now just looks obviously male although his external organs are not normal. It's a very difficult condition.

For those stating that Khelif is a 'biological man', you are relying on a ruling by an organisation which is widely discredited, who decided Khelif was XY halfway thru a competition, and has steadfastly refused to provide any evidence for the assertion.

Whether being XY, automatically means you're male is another debate, and the olympics has never done this test on people, or excluded on this basis either. In any other situation, you would not take the IBA's word, you probably wouldn't know ow the organisation existed! But it suits the purpose of certain groups, to suddenly total faith in that organisation:

"The IBA was recognised by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) as the international governing body for the sport of boxing until 2019, when the IOC suspended its recognition of the federation;[3] in 2023, the IOC formally stripped the IBA of its status, becoming the first international federation to ever be expelled from the Olympic movement.[4] The IOC's decision was upheld by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in 2024.[5]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Boxing_Association

We are seeing here an ever tightening exclusion of women who don't seem to fit JK Rowlings personal definition of 'female enough', backed up by repeating any source that suits the rhetoric.

It's nothing to do with testosterone and all the focus on testosterone levels has obscured the real problem.

Khelif previously "failed a sex test". The boxing authority who reported this won't say what the test was but most likely it was a chromosome test showing a male chromosome make-up (genotype). It's likely Khelif is a male with some kind of DSD, who was brought up as a female.

This means that regardless of hormones, they went through male puberty, which gives a male body (skeleton, muscles, blood volume etc) and therefore a body which is faster and stronger than a female body. And looks like a male body. Male puberty is irreversible and the physical advantages remain for life.

There are many very different DSDs, it isn't a single condition.

He doesn't fit my definition of female.

He doesn't fit the definition of female because he's male.

This is bullshit.

As you can see from my screenshot above the VP of the World Boxing Organisation has also confirmed the truth and said they warned the IOC about 2 males in the female boxing and the IOC ignored them.

Video here of him speaking.

https://x.com/andraw0x/status/1819715977501941942

Whether being XY, automatically means you're male is another debate

You are wrong.

Wow! I didn't expect to see a version of 'it's all JKRs fault', yet there it was.

and has steadfastly refused to provide any evidence for the assertion.

It illegal to release someone's medical information to the world. So the IBA can't release the tests. The boxers in question could though but they haven't. So think about why they haven't.

There is now confirmation that the boxer has XY chromosomes and is therefore male. https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/3/0d4ucn50bmvbndhhqjohaneccoqueq

Op, there are lots of different disorders of sexual development, but there is one that stands out amongst male athletes.

And although the IBA hasn't specified if Khelif has one, they've said he's not eligible for female sport. And there are photos of him being regarded as a girl when he was a child.

People who understand the nature of DSDs have come to the conclusion that he has a male specific DSD.

Where the testosterone that normally affects boys at birth doesn't, but does at the second attempt, during puberty.

So at birth the genitalia is ambiguous, and they're often recorded as female.

But it becomes clear at puberty that they're not.

This is what Khelif has, and most people knowledgeable in the subject think it is, then he would've known at puberty that he was male. Indeed, it's colloquially called penis at 12.

But either way, he was deemed ineligible to fight in the female category.

Which the IOC ignored.

I found this article provides an excellent overview of the controversy and the science.

In short, Khelif most likely is a male with XY chromosomes, went through male puberty (which is why he looks so obviously male) and may have 5-ARD which affects only males. https://quillette.com/2024/08/03/xy-athletes-in-womens-olympic-boxing-paris-2024-controversy-explained-khelif-yu-ting/

Also the 2 boxers had every opportunity to appeal the ban at the independent court that arbitrates sport. This is the court that Semenya went to over being banned from competing in the 800m sprint and it's how we have confirmation he is male because these records are public.

Neither of the 2 boxers in question went through with this. Khelif started but dropped the case. I imagine because they realised that like Semenya the knowledge would then be a matter of public record.

This article explains ot really well and is very balanced (much more than I am, I think its scandalous to allow functional men to punch women in the face at the Olympics)

https://quillette.com/2024/08/03/xy-athletes-in-womens-olympic-boxing-paris-2024-controversy-explained-khelif-yu-ting/?s=08

For those stating that Khelif is a 'biological man', you are relying on a ruling by an organisation which is widely discredited, who decided Khelif was XY halfway thru a competition, and has steadfastly refused to provide any evidence for the assertion.

No, that's not all that's being relied on. It has been discussed at length on this site in thousand of words over the past few days, but suffice to say that the World Boxing Organization has also said Khelif is male.

They can't publish Khelif's private medical records. What they have said is that the two boxers failed 2 gender tests which weren't based on testosterone levels. So they were chromosome based. The IBA minutes for this decision are available, it was based on 2 separate lab tests.

This isn't about JK Rowling at all, she's reacting to the exact same story we all are.

Feminist media platform Reduxx broke this story, read the linked thread below.

https://x.com/Slatzism/status/1819427537740558848

It's not a clear cut situation because this is a real person with real feelings not a cause.

This person was brought up a female, birth certificate says female but at puberty did not follow the normal trajectory for females as they have a rare dsd condition where males (with xy chromosomes) present visually at birth either without any external genitalia or they are ambiguous. They are not transgender.

Unfortunately the net result is that they have male levels of testosterone which in sport means an unfair amount in terms of developing muscle mass, overall strength etc. but despite this the rules need to be followed as set prior to the games. It's quite a sad situation all around, these are not men pretending to be women.

You'll also notice that all these cases tend to be from poorer countries because in many countries this situation could not arise because biological sex would have been established close to birth where there is dsd through testing.